Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (226 mails)
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[openFATE 305326] 5 Second Boot
- From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:28:42 +0100 (CET)
- Message-id: <feature-305326-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd)
Feature #305326, revision 11
Title: 5 Second Boot
openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Stephan Kulow (coolo)
reject date: 2009-02-09 15:47:52
reject reason: Sorry to be harsh, but this feature can't be implemented
as asked for.
Priority
Requester: Mandatory
Requested by: Jared Allen (jpallen)
Partner organization: openSUSE.org
Description:
The amount of time required to boot up needs to be reduced drastically.
I suggest we consider the work being done in this article:
http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/
as our baseline and strive to make similar adjustments.
Business case (Partner benefit):
openSUSE.org: As we continue to get more involved in the Thin Client
and UMPC markets, boot time becomes increasingly important. Intel's
Moblin project is touting boot time as one of the significant
features/advantages of their Moblin project. There are signs that other
distros are following suit. We have at least one Thin Client partner
that is requesting significant improvements in boot time in order to
remain competitive. In fact, SLETC would have been included on more
thin client hardware shipments to-date had we a faster boot time.
Discussion:
#1: Jared Allen (jpallen) (2008-10-06 17:03:30)
I spoken with both AJ and Michael Meeks regarding this requirement. AJ
suggested that include Coolo in the discussion since it will most
definitely affect the distribution as a whole.
#2: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-01-20 15:18:14)
similiar adjustments? Do you mean the "We had to do a lot of damage to
X," part or the "use xfce" part?
There is a limit on what you can do in a generic system and many of the
low hanging fruits is already done. If you talk about getting a thin
client to boot fast, then making transparent use of suspend & resume is
the way to go IMO. Booting off cold hardware is problematic if you want
more than xfce. There are about 100MB data to read for a pretty
standard KDE session (and I assume GNOME is similiar) - on a pretty
fragmented file system you get ~8MB/s netto - so just reading your
files takes already 12s.
Making preload dynamic on the blocks actually used is something that
was discussed long, long ago, but the kernel still doesn't provide the
infrastructure - so this is one of the TODOs, but possibly Intel got
that ball rolling.
Kernel drivers being quicker with probing would be another TODO, also
listed in the article.
Another urgent TODO is defragmentation because readahead helps only a
little if the next update will scatter the files around your 1TB hard
drive.
+ #3: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:28:27)
+ may be this is plain stupid, forgive me if it is. The install time was
+ dramatically reduced by the use of "images" of installs. Could it not
+ be possible to build "images" of the installed system - that is to have
+ all the necessary files on boot able to read at once. It's not exactly
+ the same as suspend to disk, of like a suspend to disk with only the
+ system.
+ Most computers never change hardware and a new grub entry could be
+ added: boot with new hardware
--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/305326
Feature #305326, revision 11
Title: 5 Second Boot
openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Stephan Kulow (coolo)
reject date: 2009-02-09 15:47:52
reject reason: Sorry to be harsh, but this feature can't be implemented
as asked for.
Priority
Requester: Mandatory
Requested by: Jared Allen (jpallen)
Partner organization: openSUSE.org
Description:
The amount of time required to boot up needs to be reduced drastically.
I suggest we consider the work being done in this article:
http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/
as our baseline and strive to make similar adjustments.
Business case (Partner benefit):
openSUSE.org: As we continue to get more involved in the Thin Client
and UMPC markets, boot time becomes increasingly important. Intel's
Moblin project is touting boot time as one of the significant
features/advantages of their Moblin project. There are signs that other
distros are following suit. We have at least one Thin Client partner
that is requesting significant improvements in boot time in order to
remain competitive. In fact, SLETC would have been included on more
thin client hardware shipments to-date had we a faster boot time.
Discussion:
#1: Jared Allen (jpallen) (2008-10-06 17:03:30)
I spoken with both AJ and Michael Meeks regarding this requirement. AJ
suggested that include Coolo in the discussion since it will most
definitely affect the distribution as a whole.
#2: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-01-20 15:18:14)
similiar adjustments? Do you mean the "We had to do a lot of damage to
X," part or the "use xfce" part?
There is a limit on what you can do in a generic system and many of the
low hanging fruits is already done. If you talk about getting a thin
client to boot fast, then making transparent use of suspend & resume is
the way to go IMO. Booting off cold hardware is problematic if you want
more than xfce. There are about 100MB data to read for a pretty
standard KDE session (and I assume GNOME is similiar) - on a pretty
fragmented file system you get ~8MB/s netto - so just reading your
files takes already 12s.
Making preload dynamic on the blocks actually used is something that
was discussed long, long ago, but the kernel still doesn't provide the
infrastructure - so this is one of the TODOs, but possibly Intel got
that ball rolling.
Kernel drivers being quicker with probing would be another TODO, also
listed in the article.
Another urgent TODO is defragmentation because readahead helps only a
little if the next update will scatter the files around your 1TB hard
drive.
+ #3: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:28:27)
+ may be this is plain stupid, forgive me if it is. The install time was
+ dramatically reduced by the use of "images" of installs. Could it not
+ be possible to build "images" of the installed system - that is to have
+ all the necessary files on boot able to read at once. It's not exactly
+ the same as suspend to disk, of like a suspend to disk with only the
+ system.
+ Most computers never change hardware and a new grub entry could be
+ added: boot with new hardware
--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/305326
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