Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (443 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] adverse effects in SLE and openSUSE relationship
Hi Richard,

Am 08.07.19 um 13:40 schrieb Richard Brown:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 11:36, Hans-Peter Jansen <hpj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Am Montag, 8. Juli 2019, 09:30:06 CEST schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:
Hi,

Am 07.07.19 um 10:07 schrieb Simon Lees:
I think your missing the point of Leap, Leap is meant to be stable and
boring, its meant to keep the same or a very similar base system for
most of its lifecycle, it intentionally doesn't get the newest
everything stuff is only upgraded if there is a really good reason, this
is what some openSUSE users want. For people who want the latest stuff
tumbleweed is a far better option.

not sure if this is the correct thread and location (actually I think
it's not) but this is actually an interesting topic.
Specifically since 15.1 I had the feeling that SUSE "dictates" a bit too
much what gets into Leap and what is not.
There are examples where updates were dismissed because SLE 15SP1 has a
certain package and didn't want to upgrade or packages which are taken
over by SLE15 variants which were a fork before.
I am not sure if all those decisions have been completely agreed
inbetween the openSUSE community packager and SUSE.

There is a process for raising concerns in this project when one
maintainer disagrees with another.
That is when the openSUSE Board should be contacted by the aggrieved parties.

As far as I can recall, there has never been a single concern raised
by a non-SUSE employed contributor about the SLE/Leap decisions of a
SUSE employed contributor, or visa versa.

So, while I'm not naive enough to be surprised by your point, I am
highly disappointed that you and any others who feel the same as you
feel that griping in a public mailinglist is preferable to raising
your concerns to the very body that exists for when different
contributors disagree on the nature of their contributions.

for me personally there was never the point where I had a reason to call
for some institution to resolve the situation.
I only read this thread and felt like I raise some concerns before they
might get more and because it seems that others were hit more before.

I can tell about my experiences as a maintainer of some packages that
the way how to request an update for a package inherited from (or
switched to) SLE is not very clear, it's very strange because you get
e.g. asked by someone corporate what is the business case for an update
(example on request) and other weird discussions.

As said for me it worked out acceptable.
But there are certainly strange situations happening like for example
Firefox which was a fork until Leap 15.0 and was pushed from SLE to Leap
15.1 and now is managed from there.
I was a bit involved into a discussion before and I (think I) understand
where that is coming from but the result as could be seen a few weeks
ago was quite strange when the current 15.1 package was older than the
15.0 one and broken as well.

In any case those experiences together with reports from others just
paints a picture in my mind where I see some misalignment.
I'm not saying we are there yet but the direction is to something like:
Leap = SLE + community stuff
What I think that Leap should be:
Leap = SLE (with community modifications where the community/maintainer
wants it; in best case w/o breaking base compatibility with SLE) +
community stuff

Now the truth is probably somewhere inbetween and that is what I meant
with "dictates a bit too much".

And that is certainly a topic for a mailing list and not a personal
discussion with the board.
You can argue that I continued on opensuse-factory instead of moving to
opensuse-project right away though.


Wolfgang
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