Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (443 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: please someone help with SR#711379
  • From: Michal Kubecek <mkubecek@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:14:56 +0200
  • Message-id: <1658703.eEWXTa1tlO@alaris>
On Monday, 1 July 2019 7:31 Simon Lees wrote:
On 01/07/2019 02:45, Michal Kubecek wrote:
Well, I wasn't talking about some people's interpretation of certain
vaguely formulated policies, I was talking about what things are
like in real life. And I tried to tell you what is the real life
fallout of some of the policies you advocate for so strongly. It's
good to see that you understand there is a problem; but what makes
me sad is that you took it from the wrong end again. Rather that
thinking about what Factory maintainers could change so that they
would not drive potential (and real) packagers away from Factory,
your first thought is "Hey, they should not do that on company
time!" Disappointing...

Well that's not what I was trying to do I was more trying to point out
that while what you describe might happen in parts of SUSE its not
what SUSE is doing in most places and what SUSE as a company is
encouraging its employees to do.

Unlike you, I don't dare to guess how big the two parts are and which of
them deserves the term "most places". What I'm certain of is that in the
parts I'm in closest contact with, it often feels I'm one of the very
few who still bother. But if you still insist that what you are doing is
for the greater good and we just don't understand it, feel free to go on
imposing more loops for others to hop through to make your work easier,
keep tightening the screws and driving people away from the project.

If the previous paragraph sounds harsh, it's only because you don't hear
what some other people say about openSUSE and Factory and their policies
and rules and the way they are enforced. It might come as an unpleasant
surprise to you (you as plural, not singular). Make no mistake, I'm not
happy about that and I would really appreciate if their attitude were
different. But as I said, I can't really blame them.

So if I package, say, Google's packetdrill for openSUSE and SLE so
that I and other people can use it for our work but do not feel
like going through the ordeal of getting it to Factory and keeping
it there, I'm the bad guy. If I didn't do anything, everything
would be much better. Is that really what you wanted to say?

I will disagree that it is an ordeal into getting something into
factory, other then the wait on legal reviews I don't tend to have
issues at most fixing stuff to be correct generally takes me 5
minutes, maybe that's just because I do it so often that I naturally
write packages that comply with our rules, or maybe the kinds of
packages I write are different and therefore don't have the same
issues.

That's one part of the problem: you are one of the people enforcing the
rules so that it's no surprise you find them natural and desirable. One
might even notice that the "overall consent" that Stefan is completely
wrong and that the he just doesn't understand was from people like that.

If you have examples of "bureaucracy" that you think could be reduced
or removed this list is the place to discuss them, although this
thread was about a bot blocking a certain style rather then causing
someone significantly more effort.

And this is another: whatever example I come with - and the incident
which started this thread is a striking example in my (our) eyes - you
are going to say it's not an example, it's just a rule and it's a good
rule and makes the project better. I might mention that every few months
there is a new arbitrary and unnecessary style rule that requires people
to rewrite their specfiles and often requires breaking build against SLE
(and sometimes even Leap) versions which are still supported; I might
even list some really crazy examples; but I have pretty good idea what
the reply would be. So I guess I don't have any example - or rather none
that you would accept as an example.

Michal Kubecek


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