Sergey, what did I say about this mailinglist not being a soapbox for
ill-informed rants?
On 4 September 2016 at 08:36, Sergey Kondakov
I can't and will not say anything about particular bug discussed here BUT I think many people will agree that the reason why so many are getting those insane "not enough space" btrfs error varieties over the _years_ is that it's main purpose is to provide zfs-like enterprise features to corporation with big data storages while small-time enterprises and SOHO users of openSUSE and alike are readily treated as mere guinea pigs for that use case, meaning that openSUSE itself is an eternal "corner case".
Not true. Bugs filed by the openSUSE community are treated with a very high level of respect and concern - heck, I can think of cases where me and my colleagues in SUSE QA have had to mention openSUSE bugs because our testing was considered a 'corner case' but as soon as we were able to show that at least one openSUSEr had hit the same issue 'in the real world' there was no longer any arguing and the bug got fixed, fast.
Recently, the distribution installer was removed from TW "due to bugs" while the only bug of that installer that I've ever seen is another "not enough space" right in the middle of installing 12Gb worth of packages on fresh ~20Gb-sized btrfs partition which I successfully have done multiple times before with different live builds and machines. Yeah, remove the installer of the system, not the thing that breaks it, that makes sense... Also a nice attempt to try to force more users on official desktop-dysfunctional TW builds as testers of "One True Way of SUSE".
Nonsense. The distribution installer was not removed. The LiveCD installer was removed because it had absolutely zero testing, zero maintainers, and ZERO SUPPORT for UEFI. Given 100% of modern laptops, desktops, and even servers these days ship with UEFI, most of the time as a default, having a LiveCD installer without any support for UEFI was an absolutely unacceptable situation. As no one was maintaining it, no one fixed it for many months. And therefore, it was removed. "Fix it, or it gets dropped" is a semi-regular occurrence in Tumbleweed. And since then, a contributor (thanks Fabian!) has done an amazing job of hacking together the Net installer onto our LiveCD's, so while the LiveCD installer is no longer present, the NET installer (which does support UEFI and is fully tested).
So, regarding "the development of the openSUSE distributions", since you're are the upstream and demanding from ordinary users having Ph.D. in computer science and endless free time is utterly insane, how about that: 1) Since the damn thing needs free space to even free its space, make it reserve that space for no other reason than to not shit itself when it's time to delete something.
That's exactly what the new snapper btrfs quota support does - literally, you're demanding the very thing which is the opposite of what Chris is demanding... http://snapper.io/2016/05/18/space-aware-cleanup.html
2) Make it checkable and repairable on R/O mount or make your initrd able to check and repair it before mounting anything. Same goes for XFS. Right now they both are never checked at all.
It is, that's what mount -o ro,recovery is for
3) Fix it's kernel code or all userspace space-querying software to make it able to figure out its real space utilization.
Why, when btrfs fi df / works? Read https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#Understanding_free_space.2C_usin... to understand why this demand is unreasnoble (and also nothing to do with the topic at hand)
4) Make automatic snapshot deletion and balancing on potential "not enough space" before throwing it into userspace. Or at least enable your btrfsmaintenance crutches by default.
That's exactly what the new snapper btrfs quota support does - literally, you're demanding the very thing which is the opposite of what Chris is demanding... http://snapper.io/2016/05/18/space-aware-cleanup.html
5) Make snapper defaults realistic and, better yet, make YaST partitioner generate them based on partition/volume parameters.
That's exactly what the current parameters in YaST do - snapshots get disabled is the root filesystem is too small. If you disagree with those parameters, then file detailed bugs, not rants on this mailinglist asking for features we already have.
6) While you're at it, properly present all its features in YaST, especially compression.
no - we'll present the features we're happiest with people using, let's keep it simple at first, given emails like yours clearly show people can get confused by the subset of features we already expose.
PS: I will not even read the replies because I fear for my sanity at this point. I mean, I know I complained about the installer multiple times but only because I think that it's the most egregious example that SUSE leaders are totally out of their minds or cynical to the point of mind-boggling hypocrisy. Either way, feeding such well-written nonsense to the brain in big doses is simply dangerous, one may even start believing it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org