Simon Lees schrieb:
On 07/29/2016 04:30 PM, Bo Simonsen wrote:
Ludwig Nussel skrev den 2016-07-28 16:04:
So I wonder if putting LXDE in the spotlight like that still makes sense?
In my opinion it is a bit of lack that openSUSE LEAP does not provide DVD MATE install option, but I assume it is a matter of DVD space. In my optics it seems like there is not a big difference with respect to performance to use MATE or LXDE. And MATE is gaining a lot of popularity. For my use case having a 13" laptop with a resolution of 1920x1080 GNOME is pretty useless, since textscaling above 1.33 makes stuff look wierd (the windows does not scale due to HiDPI scaling support is only integer wise 1,2,3..) so the only DE that will work for me is KDE (my prefered), MATE and Enlightenment. This means I only have one install option from the DVD of a usable system. It is fine, but I would rather have some extra GNOME packages removed (it is really a huge selection on the DVD) than leaving out MATE. Just my $0.02.
Mate, Cinnamon, LXQt and Enlightenment are all currently not on the DVD as they are all relatively new in openSUSE this is also something that I think we should address in some way. When there used to be a smaller KDE iso and Smaller Gnome iso as well as the DVD I was considering putting together an "Alternate DE" image as well, but then the kde/gnome images were dropped so were back to square 1. The reason I started using openSUSE was because it treated all desktops equally which makes it an ideal distro for these users, I think we could play to the strength of this better by squeezing some things off the DVD to make room for more desktops. [...] My argument for why desktops are more important then some other things on the DVD: As a developer its nice being able to install all the various "Dev tool" patterns as part of the install but at the same time
Even if we had free space we will hardly ever fit all desktop environments on the DVD. So how would we decide which ones to leave out? The DVD is probably most useful where bandwidth is limited or for offline use. So I wonder if more desktops are actually relevant in such cases. If we had space on the DVD instead of putting more desktops we could also put more commonly used applications or more language support packages for example. Anyways, are we talking about Leap or Tumbleweed here? I'm not sure the DVD plays such a big role for TW, so the discussion might be moot there. Once you install with online repos or from the NET iso all desktops are available via the software selection. The patterns for desktops are listed first. For Leap I'd prefer to offer a limited set of well polished, working desktops during installation rather than a wide range of choices where none can be recommended without hesitation. But again this raises the question for selection criteria. Maybe scenarios from our test matrix¹ can give some hints.
So I think its time we talked about what should or shouldn't be on the DVD I don't think theres been a good discussion in atleast the 5 years i've been paying attention. If its important we have all the software we currently have available on a DVD maybe its time we thought about shipping a second DVD containing all the stuff that can still easily be installed post installation like devel tools or given that 8GB flash drives can be purchased here for the equivalent of $5 US maybe we should ship a larger image as well (I don't remember the last time I used a physical DVD to install something).
Extra DVDs are so last century :-) Maybe an 8 GB image for USB sticks would be an option indeed. The full ftp tree currently has 20GB (TW 32GB) though. It also wouldn't help us with the discussion about what to put on the smaller DVD image. There is demand for a DVD image as DVDs are still useful e.g. as cheap giveaway at events. So I don't think we can get rid of it yet.
If we decide to do any one of these things i'm happy to volunteer to do some of the work.
If you are interested in how the DVD content is computed based on patterns and package dependencies have a look at https://github.com/openSUSE/package-lists. It's not for the faint-hearted though ;-) cu Ludwig [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AGKijKpKiJCB616-bHVoNQuhWHpQLHPWCb3m... -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org