Please, lets just end this conversation here
I think all parties involved have had ample opportunity to contribute
productive dialogue, and if this thread continues it seems destined to
descend into further petty bickering and pointlessness
As I started in my earlier mail, if there are productive, actionable,
practical efforts born from this discussion, please use a new thread
to discuss the implementation of that
Otherwise, lets end this conversation now.
It's long left the topic of this list (openSUSE Factory) and it's not
producing anything of value to anyone.
Regards,
Richard Brown
openSUSE Chairman
On 12 August 2014 14:25, Todd Rme
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Linda A. Walsh
wrote: Todd Rme wrote:
You, and other members of the anti-systemd crowd,...
Lets call it what it is... the pro-choice crowd, and the no-choice crowd, as that is probably the biggest sticking point with most people.
It is also "the crowd that is willing to do the work and the crowd that isn't". That is the biggest sticking point for people who don't oppose systemd.
So please forgive our continued attempts to ask for choice. Freedom of choice, a basic freedom in a free society is one of those things that much constantly be fought for -- and it doesn't come overnight and isn't lost in 1 battle or not (though the 1984-authoritarians would love to perpetuate the myth that there can never be change).
People who fought for choice made an effort to make choice possible. Just talking about choice doesn't change anything when no one is willing to put in the effort to implement choice.
Projects voluntarily chose to join systemd because they thought it would benefit their project.
Some did... some didn't -- those that didn't weren't given a choice...they were absorbed.
Please name any project that was forced to become part of the systemd umbrella against its developers' wishes.
As far as I can tell, you are essentially arguing that because you don't like systemd and don't find it useful, all the groups that do find it useful aren't allowed to rely on it. There is a simple solution: have something else that provides the features these projects are looking for.
----
I had 90% of the features I wanted, and the ability to implement ones I didn't have. With systemd, I won't have that ability, because there will be no place for alternatives.
Again, this isn't about what you find useful, it is about what the developers of major open-source projects find useful. They are the ones who decide whether relying on a particular piece of software -- systemd, cups, x11, wayland, llvm -- provides benefits to their project or not. And that depends to a large degree on whether the software provides features that the project developers think their project will benefit from.
But you aren't going to get very far trying to tell projects that they can't make use of features they find beneficial at all because you don't happen to like the software that provides those features.
----
I agree some features are beneficial, but I want the a la carte menu. It could be provided, but part of the systemd design is to eliminate possibilities of ala carte usage and partial use. What was the MS motto -- systemd sure seems to have it down pat: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish... Ms eventually got brought under control because it was a monopoly and used it's monopoly power to aborb the functions of more and more programs, putting alternitives out of business. Not that I think it likely anti-monopoly laws would apply here, but in the business world, those actions were found *unethical* and unfair against other alternatives. Many courts ruled this way. So if you can't see how the same actions in the software community wouldn't cause similar if not equal antipathy, you aren't trying.
Again, there is a simple solution to this: provide an alternative that projects actually want to use. All this talk about whether alternatives should exist or not will not accomplish anything. Unless the people who oppose systemd are willing to put in the work to actually provide alternatives, projects will continue to use systemd.
Free software was not built by people talking about how nice freedom it, it was built by people doing the work to provide the software. If no one is willing to do the work to provide the software, it won't exist. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org