Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (689 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Tumbleweed, future directions
On Sat, Mar 02, 2013 at 11:03:38AM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
On 2013-02-03T09:49:33, Greg KH <gregkh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all.

So Tumbleweed is, I think, almost 2 years old now. It seems to be
working fairly well, or at least well enough for my daily use, and I
haven't heard any complaints about it in a long time which means that
either no one is using it, or it's working for others :)

Hi Greg,

it is actually working very well for me and, in combination with a
handful of select devel/beta repositories, provides me with a nice
'rolling' distro between official openSUSE releases.

It is a very useful middle-ground between openSUSE + official updates
(too conservative for me) and following Factory (my employer wants me to
work on my laptop, alas).

That's good to hear.

The only "issue" I keep having for the first one to three weeks of a new
openSUSE + Tumbleweed rebase (and about which we just don't agree) is
that it doesn't always happen when it's convenient for me to rebase my
laptop, and that I want to keep history around for a few days so I can
bisect/compare if needed. But I decided to make myself unpopular with
the OBS team and help myself this time ;-)
(home:LarsMB:Tumbleweed-12.2)

Yes, no matter what date I pick (too conservative or too soon), someone
will complain about this, so it doesn't really bother me :)

So, I was thinking about maybe, when 12.3 changing Tumbleweed from being
an "add-on" repo on top of the 12.3 repos, to being a "full" distro
snapshot. That would resolve the build number problems we have had, but
the dependancy rebuild issue would increase.

Would it resolve the build number problems completely?

Yes.

(Just out of curiosity, why is Tumbleweed building against 12.2, not
12.2:Updates right now?)

Hm, I don't remember, I think it was to prevent too many rebuilds from
happening as libraries got updated for security updates. These types of
updates wouldn't require rebuilds (otherwise the whole of the 12.2 repo
would have needed rebuilds), so I assumed this was going to be safe.

If this isn't true, I can change this, but so far, it seems to work
fine.

And this would greatly increase the build system resources required, if
I'm not mistaken, right?

Yes, and I'm worried about that as right now, with just the "limited"
number of tumbleweed packages we have, it's taking 3-4 days to rebuild
stuff. Something has really slowed the build system down recently, I'm
hoping it's just the 12.3 updates kicking in, but in watching the
monitor page, I'm not quite sure what it is.

And this is thing that is keeping me from moving to this "full repo"
model. None of my requests for build system "changes" from over a year
or so ago seem to have been implemented (if they have, my apologies, but
given the recent build times, it doesn't seem like it, so I probably
have other complaints to make...)

I have half-a-mind to just spin up a AWS instance, put obs on it, and
see how long it takes to rebuild the whole distro and compare it with
the build times we currently have. That would be a good test to see
where the bottlenecks are at the moment.

The rebuild problem can be manually handled, much like FACTORY currently
is, but odds are, I would lean toward the conservative side, having more
rebuilds than are probably necessary just to ensure that systems work
well. That means that libreoffice would be updated on a weekly basis
for users, which might get annoying over time :)

This would put additional strain on the download servers too, and on the
update speed for all users, wouldn't it?

I don't know if there is a strain on the download servers, is there?
I've never heard of issues there, only on the build side.

I really like Tumbleweed, so if that makes things easier for you, go for
it; but to me, the add-on repository hasn't been a problem and made it
somewhat easier too (ability to tell where a package came from, how they
differ, etc).

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

greg k-h
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