Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1134 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Calling for a new openSUSE development model
  • From: Sascha Peilicke <saschpe@xxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:20:34 +0200
  • Message-id: <4FD9D712.4030001@gmx.de>
On 06/14/2012 01:39 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 14.06.2012 13:35, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
On 06/14/2012 01:52 PM, todd rme wrote:
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Stephan Kulow<coolo@xxxxxxx> wrote:
3. As working more strictly will require more time, I would like to
either ditch release schedules all together or release only once a
year and then rebase Tumbleweed - as already discussed in the RC1
thread.
What if we do it the other way around? We have Tumbleweed as the
"official" openSUSE version (which is only rebased when SLES is
released), and we periodically pull out a version of Tumbleweed and
release it as a versioned openSUSE? This version would be frozen with
a specific set of package versions, and the release cycle would only
involve fixing problems in those versions? That way we avoid the
problem of new updates breaking existing fixes during the polishing
phase.

-Todd
Very good idea :)

Please be a bit more verbatim in this thread - I tried to ask very
kindly, but let me put it again a bit harsher:

Mhm, maybe this is only my personal POV, but I sense this as being
actually _the_ issue stopping contributors from contributing...

So my (slightly off-topical due to not offering any technical) idea is this:

Instead of throwing yet more scripts, OBS features and policy at this
apparent issue, how about we all try to establish a more welcoming and
open-minded spirit of doing community work. I mean, I certainly have my
share in breaking Factory, but more than once I had to question myself
if that is all worth it given all the flaming on the lists. For me, this
question is still easily answered but (I know) there are a lot of guys
that lost interest due to being sick of being told how
stupid/incompetent/ignorant they are.

Similarly, the question is why open requests, a red Factory monitor page
and reminder mails are still being ignored. IMO because they're all
technical solutions to a social issue, too. In my experience, things
start to change radically if you talk to people in person (or via
personal e-mails). I do think this is because one actually starts to
identify with the issue and the people you talk with. Also, it becomes
clear who's responsible for fixing it. This surely isn't the case with
anonymous mails or requests to a whole bunch of (inactive) OBS project
maintainers. They're far to easy to ignore (for me too).

The truth is, most community members don't get money to work on Factory,
but I see two major reasons to do it anyway:

- Scratching your own itch
- Getting kudos

While the first one is truly a personal thing, the second one can really
matter. Positive feedback about something you achieved is way more
motivating than "you forgot to also fix these 30 other packages", or "oh
cool, now you broke $X" or even "we gonna drop your stuff if you don't
fix it by $Y days" ;-)

Getting back to the responsibility thing, I think we should drop all
maintainers from all OBS project instead of the two (or three) most
active ones. We have projects with over 30 maintainers, where nobody
does anything because the others could do so too (a famous excuse btw.).

Long story short, my point is about:

- being nice and friendly
- communicating personally
- making people feel responsible


please no fan boys in
this thread. If you know how factory is developed, if you suffered the
problems of running or developing against factory, share your insight.

But if you just try to add noise to the thread - DO NOT!

Greetings, Stephan




--
Viele Grüße,
Sascha Peilicke



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