Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (491 mails)

[Dennis Gallien <dwgallien@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Monday, February 06, 2012 12:17 PM Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Ruediger Meier schrieb:
> > Yes it's a personal attack. But he deserves it.
>
> Hold on. NOBODY _deserves_ personal attacks.
>
> Everyone in this community (meaning the wider FLOSS community here),
> esp. everyone actively putting work into any part of it, wants to be
> productive and do something positive for this world. We all might have
> different views of what's the best ways to go on certain things, but
> we're all trying to make things better from our own point of view and
> work hard on that. Personal attacks have no space in such an environment.
>
> If you want to be taken seriously by other people on this list or in any
> other similar setting, you need to talk in "how can this issue be
> solved" and not in "this is crap" and/or "you suck" terms. If you can't
> do that, you will never be happy in those communities, and they will
> never be happy about you. So please restrain yourself and learn how to
> argue constructively. There's enough destructiveness in this world that
> we better make this place a constructive one.
>
> That said, standard Linux has shown pretty clearly in the last couple of
> years that it needs a change in the basic boot and process/system
> management field. OK, we're doing pretty OK in servers, but they don't
> need a lot in this area, being rarely rebooted and rarely changing what
> they are doing, so the same main processes stay up and spawn whatever
> helpers they need and that's it. In the desktop and mobile fields
> though, the major competitors outperform us in just about everything in
> that space - booting _way_ faster (esp. Win7 is pretty good there),
> having first-class management of system/background services, etc.
>
> If we want to compete in those areas, we need solutions there, and it
> has been pretty hard to get sysvinit in shape for any of that. It looks
> like most distribution maintainers at a higher level agree that the
> ideas that systemd is being based on look like a good base for solving a
> lot in this space. Yes, it's painful to switch something so deep in our
> stack and there will be some cases where there's some work needed to get
> things to work with systemd that had been working with sysvinit, but
> switching back on those systems is likely only a temporary solution and
> only pushes out the problem instead of solving it. Let's work together
> to find solutions.
>
> We all want Linux, esp. openSUSE, to be successful, and so we need to
> bite the bullet and find ways to make us competitive so we can attract
> people to use those systems. One way to get there is to improve systemd
> enough to cover all cases we need. If you feel systemd is not a good
> base for solving the problems, try finding an alternative that can fix
> both not being competitive in those areas _and_ the problems you see in
> systemd, and maybe what comes out of this is even better. People are
> surely open to that.
>
> Still, don't attack others, but work with them to find solutions even
> more people can be happy with.
>
> Robert kaiser

+1!
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