Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1578 mails)

[Sebastian Freundt <freundt@xxxxxxxxxx>]

James Knott <james.knott@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:

> [1. text/plain]
>
> Rüdiger Meier wrote:
> > Ok, I give up. Still don't know how you would do it but now I believe
> > you could manage to give me /48 as a subnet of your /56.
>
> When have I ever claimed that?  I have said that ISPs can hand out
> lots of /48, /56 or /64 subnets, without danger of running out of
> address space in the foreseeable future.

I second that.


> > And morever if you can't give everybody a whole subnet then you
> > >  >  probably want to restrict every user to a single IP because you as
> > >  >  the ISP have to log the user/IP/time map. (At least in Germany you
> > >  >  have to do this). Logging this map would be much harder if these
> > >  >  6000 users are using random adresses from the shared subnet.
> >    >
> > >  Compare that to what happens now with IPv4 and NAT.  The ISP cannot
> > >  monitor each individual computer behind the NAT router, only the
> > >  aggregate traffic from the router.
> >    That's why they give different IPs to each customer and don't NAT
> > you at
> > all. You are NATing your machines. And you are responsible for
> > everything your machines did on the net unless you can proof that it
> > was your grandma.
>
> You were claiming that ISPs could not monitor the traffic with so many
> addresses, as they do now with IPv4.  There is no difference between
> doing this with NAT or not.  They only have to monitor your traffic.

I was claiming that.  You haven't seen actual infringement notices, it
heavily depends on how technophile the issuing court is, there are cases
where they have to hand out all customers connected at a certain time in a
/24 AS owned by the ISP because according to German (and Swedish?) law the
ISP is (partially) liable too.  If they can however name one party they
can proceed against them in a civil case demanding compensation.

I can very well imagine incompetent prosecutors who demand all connections
in a /32 at a given time or time span (because the ISP is treated like a
suspect too)  I SOOOO would love to hand over 20000 sheets of paper :)


> With IPv4 and NAT, there is no connection between IP address and
> hardware behind the NAT.  With IPv6 and random addresses, the same
> applies.  With MAC addresses, then each computer could be tracked,
> which, incidentally, is the reason the random address method was
> developed.

Yep, making it the end hard to trace, but that's EXACTLY what an ISP needs
to do (in certain countries).


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