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Re: [opensuse-factory] Change hinting style from 'hintfull' to 'hintslight'
At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:17:39 -0500,
Jon Nelson wrote:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@xxxxxxx> wrote:
At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:57:28 -0500,
Jon Nelson wrote:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@xxxxxxx> wrote:
At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:26:07 -0500,
Jon Nelson wrote:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@xxxxxxx> wrote:
At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:50:47 +0200,
Petr Gajdos wrote:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 02:07:52PM +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Here is an counterexample of my previous examples (again left
hintfull
and right hintslight).

Hmm, a wrong attachment?

Yes :-D.

Yeah, in this case, the glyph are slightly shrunk vertically, so looks
uglier indeed.

OTOH, the hintfull has still a better visibility than hintslight.  For
example, look at the letter "m" in the right side (check it via xmag
or such).  The whole glyph is filled with gray pixels.  So if this
letter alone is picked up without texts, you can't say what it is.


causes the small font in the search input on opensuse.org render
"better" for me.

would be a good compromise.  (I guess we can change the style even
in
the point size condition?)

I hope yes, see conf.avail/20-unhint-small-vera.conf and test on
pixelsize in it.

Good, we have many choices :)

I have two concerns - on my laptop, I had to go back to light because
full was fuzzy. Perhaps it's because I'm using DejaVu Sans?  As has
been amply demonstrated here, hinting /does/ appear to be working in
11.4 at least and what works for one person might not work for
another.

First of all, you need to define the verb "work" in this context.
It's about the visibility / clearness of each font glyph, or it's
about how well the original form is kept, or overall readability in
small size, etc?

If hintfull gives fuzzier (= less clear) output than hintslight, as I
mentioned, something must be wrong.  It's a bug either in the font
design or in the render.  In such a case, we need to fix it or give a
workaround for this font, i.e. font-specific config.  And, this is not
what works for one person but not for others.  It must be reproducible
on every machine.  It's no art.  It's just a program.

Let me see if I can supply some samples showing where, in some cases,
full is not as nice as slight.

OK. Comparing slight vs full only.

The word 'Package' is spaced oddly with full: there is more space
between the 'c' and the 'k' than any other letters. This doesn't
happen with slight.
Ditto 'Order' between 'r' and 'd'. The capital 'O' is also "thinner"
(less horizontal space) with slight than with full.

So you are arguing about the spacing and the excessive deformation of
some glyph by hinting, not about the sharpness/clearness, right?
I know of such a problem in some Japanese fonts, too. One solution
was to implement another hinting algorithm to suppress the
deformation. I don't remember how it went on, though. It was years
ago...

Neither of these visual artifacts happen with 'Liberation Sans' but
they do with 'DejaVu Sans'.

This issue is pretty likely depending on the font, AFAIK.

The gnome appearance tool for changing the font seems especially
useful because the changes are immediately visible upon clicking
'slight' and 'full'.

Yes, the visible examples would be good for more objective
discussions.  Whether it's "nice" or not is subjective and
unmeasurable, so we can't argue in such a way.  More better way to
compare is needed.

Absolutely. I'm trying to find some good examples.

Thanks!


Takashi
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