At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:17:39 -0500, Jon Nelson wrote:
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Takashi Iwai
wrote: At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:57:28 -0500, Jon Nelson wrote:
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Takashi Iwai
wrote: At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:26:07 -0500, Jon Nelson wrote:
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Takashi Iwai
wrote: At Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:50:47 +0200, Petr Gajdos wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 02:07:52PM +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote: > > > Here is an counterexample of my previous examples (again left hintfull > > > and right hintslight). > > > > Hmm, a wrong attachment? > > Yes :-D.
Yeah, in this case, the glyph are slightly shrunk vertically, so looks uglier indeed.
OTOH, the hintfull has still a better visibility than hintslight. For example, look at the letter "m" in the right side (check it via xmag or such). The whole glyph is filled with gray pixels. So if this letter alone is picked up without texts, you can't say what it is.
> > > causes the small font in the search input on opensuse.org render > > > "better" for me. > > > > would be a good compromise. (I guess we can change the style even in > > the point size condition?) > > I hope yes, see conf.avail/20-unhint-small-vera.conf and test on > pixelsize in it.
Good, we have many choices :)
I have two concerns - on my laptop, I had to go back to light because full was fuzzy. Perhaps it's because I'm using DejaVu Sans? As has been amply demonstrated here, hinting /does/ appear to be working in 11.4 at least and what works for one person might not work for another.
First of all, you need to define the verb "work" in this context. It's about the visibility / clearness of each font glyph, or it's about how well the original form is kept, or overall readability in small size, etc?
If hintfull gives fuzzier (= less clear) output than hintslight, as I mentioned, something must be wrong. It's a bug either in the font design or in the render. In such a case, we need to fix it or give a workaround for this font, i.e. font-specific config. And, this is not what works for one person but not for others. It must be reproducible on every machine. It's no art. It's just a program.
Let me see if I can supply some samples showing where, in some cases, full is not as nice as slight.
OK. Comparing slight vs full only.
The word 'Package' is spaced oddly with full: there is more space between the 'c' and the 'k' than any other letters. This doesn't happen with slight. Ditto 'Order' between 'r' and 'd'. The capital 'O' is also "thinner" (less horizontal space) with slight than with full.
So you are arguing about the spacing and the excessive deformation of some glyph by hinting, not about the sharpness/clearness, right? I know of such a problem in some Japanese fonts, too. One solution was to implement another hinting algorithm to suppress the deformation. I don't remember how it went on, though. It was years ago...
Neither of these visual artifacts happen with 'Liberation Sans' but they do with 'DejaVu Sans'.
This issue is pretty likely depending on the font, AFAIK.
The gnome appearance tool for changing the font seems especially useful because the changes are immediately visible upon clicking 'slight' and 'full'.
Yes, the visible examples would be good for more objective discussions. Whether it's "nice" or not is subjective and unmeasurable, so we can't argue in such a way. More better way to compare is needed.
Absolutely. I'm trying to find some good examples.
Thanks! Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org