Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (798 mails)
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Re: [opensuse-factory] Tumbleweed status Feb 3, 2011
- From: todd rme <toddrme2178@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 10:55:23 -0500
- Message-id: <AANLkTi=9ekd5Ju4zJZ_d1MY25BXhwGQXyRAz6Az00bg1@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Greg KH <gregkh@xxxxxxx> wrote:
How is is it more work? It takes all of about 10 seconds to add a new
build target, and it is a one-time thing. That is the only way people
will get stable, reliable packages from obs when using tumbleweed.
On the contrary, I would say not having tumbleweed as a single build
target will add much more work for anyone using obs. Someone wanting
to build their application against tumbleweed would need to need to
set up repos for, 11.4, which is pretty easy (although it is slightly
harder since the default naming won't work). However, then they have
to manually modify the repo to include a second build target, which
would not be anywhere near as easy. Further, they would have to
modify this repo structure every time tumbleweed switches to a new
version of openSUSE, compared to all the other repos which you can
just make and then never touch again.
This also, as Cristian points out, makes things much harder for users.
obs will be left without packages built against tumbleweed, which
will likely lead to stability problems.
Then what happens when it doesn't build? How do you expect them to
test it? You have something stable, submit it to tumbleweed, then
find out half the packages are broken. What do you do? Tumbleweed
now has a half-working set of packages that wrecks peoples' systems
when they do an update. Wouldn't it be better for them to find out
about these problems before they submit?
And further, what if the person has made ten changes to their repo
since the last release, all that build off each other, and they find
out that the first change was what broke things with tumbleweed. Now
they have to go through and rework the remaining 9 changes to deal
with the problem. On the other hand, if they had a build target up
front they would have known about the problem at step 1 and could have
fixed it then, saving them from re-doing everything. I think a couple
instances like this and people would just stop using it.
Adding a new repo in obs is, as I said, a 10-second affair if you are
using a normal repo. Making it as easy as adding any other openSUSE
release I think would encourage people to include it just like they do
every other openSUSE release, which would mean they would find out
about problems early and would mean that there is more software
available for tumbleweed.
-Todd
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On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 01:28:48PM -0500, todd rme wrote:
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Hans Witvliet <hwit@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sat, 2011-02-19 at 17:39 +0200, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
On 02/19/2011 07:29 AM, Vahis wrote:While on the subject of Tumbleweed....
My server is 11.2 and I'll need to change soon.
I'm still dreaming of getting it somehow into a rolling mode :)
Vahis
Same here.
But I am also thinking that this will be my last upgrade to 11.3 (or
11.4) :)
--
If you switch from a fixed version towards Tumbleweed,
how about all the add-on repo's of the OBS?
afaics, they are still 11.2, 11.3, factory, SLE and some alien stuff.
hw
I would think they could add tumbleweed as a build target for these,
just like the ones you listed are now.
No, and that is one of the main reasons why I don't want to have
Tumbleweed be a stand-alone "product" or "release". To require this
would add even more work to our packagers, and I do not want to do that
at all.
How is is it more work? It takes all of about 10 seconds to add a new
build target, and it is a one-time thing. That is the only way people
will get stable, reliable packages from obs when using tumbleweed.
On the contrary, I would say not having tumbleweed as a single build
target will add much more work for anyone using obs. Someone wanting
to build their application against tumbleweed would need to need to
set up repos for, 11.4, which is pretty easy (although it is slightly
harder since the default naming won't work). However, then they have
to manually modify the repo to include a second build target, which
would not be anywhere near as easy. Further, they would have to
modify this repo structure every time tumbleweed switches to a new
version of openSUSE, compared to all the other repos which you can
just make and then never touch again.
This also, as Cristian points out, makes things much harder for users.
obs will be left without packages built against tumbleweed, which
will likely lead to stability problems.
That would actually probably be a necessary first step, the
semi-official (i.e. not home:) obs repos would need to set up
tumbleweed as one of their build targets, get packages building
successfully for tumbleweed, and only then think about submitting them
for inclusion in tumbleweed.
Again, no, that's now how submitting stuff for tumbleweed works, sorry.
It's as simple as doing your normal development and package submission
you do today, yet when you feel something is "stable", either email me
to let me know, or do a submitrequest for it. That's it.
Then what happens when it doesn't build? How do you expect them to
test it? You have something stable, submit it to tumbleweed, then
find out half the packages are broken. What do you do? Tumbleweed
now has a half-working set of packages that wrecks peoples' systems
when they do an update. Wouldn't it be better for them to find out
about these problems before they submit?
And further, what if the person has made ten changes to their repo
since the last release, all that build off each other, and they find
out that the first change was what broke things with tumbleweed. Now
they have to go through and rework the remaining 9 changes to deal
with the problem. On the other hand, if they had a build target up
front they would have known about the problem at step 1 and could have
fixed it then, saving them from re-doing everything. I think a couple
instances like this and people would just stop using it.
Adding a new repo in obs is, as I said, a 10-second affair if you are
using a normal repo. Making it as easy as adding any other openSUSE
release I think would encourage people to include it just like they do
every other openSUSE release, which would mean they would find out
about problems early and would mean that there is more software
available for tumbleweed.
-Todd
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