Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (517 mails)
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Re: [opensuse-factory] Gross bugs in GM
- From: madworm_de.novell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:47:00 +0200
- Message-id: <4C44C7D4.10000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On 07/19/2010 10:16 PM, Dale Ritchey wrote:
I can write in German if you prefer a different 'language', and be more
explicit about my views on certain things. This is certainly not what you
want, believe me. BTW, the answer is NO.
Regarding "crap":
Using that word was a deliberate exaggeration (which I informed the readers
about btw). Purpose: to provoke a reaction other than just "yeah, heard
that one before. that's not really a problem, so we'll just fix it next time...
maybe". I'm glad I've got your full attention now.
"Crap" or maybe even "Heap of ...." is most likely what will be coming out of a
"could have been a new openSUSE"-user's mouth if (as stated in the
first mail about "gross bugs in GM") _certain_ things don't work for _whatever_
reason. It doesn't matter if the remaining 99.9% work as expected.
That's just the way it is. If you need/want a certain feature and don't get it
right away the result is... inevitable. Denial is futile.
Regarding "minimal testing":
I'm a paranoid, ignorant and lazy bastard, just like most people out there. I
just don't happen to have a spare computer I can dedicate to just doing
test installations (except three or four 486 machines, but they'd be of no use
nowadays). Testing stuff in a VM I can do anytime, but the information
gained is of limited value as far as real hardware is concerned. And I just
can't do any critical stuff on my main machines. Sure I've got lots of
backups in safe places and separate data partitions, but it's just not going to
happen. Never change a running system.
Some of the vital questions are:
How to do more useful testing effectively? Is it enough to ask people to
download live CDs and just look for "everything" at once? More automated
testing maybe? A more flexible release cycle? Who really can oppose a delayed
release if things get fixed, except maybe the [censored] sales [censored].
-----------
@BC:
"I didn't ask to be made: no one consulted me or considered my feelings in the
matter. I don't think it even occurred to them that I might have
feelings. After I was made, I was left in a dark room for six months... and me
with this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side. I called
for succour in my loneliness, but did anyone come? Did they hell. My first and
only true friend was a small rat. One day it crawled into a cavity in
my right ankle and died. I have a horrible feeling it's still there..."
R.
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For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
On 07/19/2010 10:22 AM, madworm_de.novell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Well...Am I reading you right? You don't want to test except maybe a minimal.
the last time I felt the urge to comment on such things was the blatant
failure of the rescue/repair system in 10.2 (or was is 10.3 ?). A fact that
could have been discovered in 2 minutes by almost anybody. I'm bold enough
to believe that even a reasonable intelligent parrot could have discovered
it and rightfully started a squawking tantrum, biting the the next best
person until blood drips off the "commit-button finger".
Maybe it is time to reconsider what is important:
a) Not missing a release date/cycle at all cost, shipping "crap" (before I
get fried: this is an intentional exaggeration) to the users and move all
existing bug reports to the next version.
b) Letting the cheese/wine properly mature until it becomes really tasty.
This clearly takes more time and more testers.
I understand that most bugs can only be found by actually using the
software, and herein lies THE problem. I don't have an issue with testing a
live
CD in Virtualbox now and then, but that won't show most issues with hardware
(fake raid controllers etc.). I and certainly most of the other casual
testers won't want to trash a working system with "crap". Installing a
reasonably aged release candidate would be OK I guess.
What is a release of openSUSE supposed to be? Cutting edge "crap" that needs
a few "service packs", or something a bit less colorful that just works?
Or is "it just works" monopolized by SLED?
R.
And the use launguage like this. The language you are using is quite
unacceptable
I can write in German if you prefer a different 'language', and be more
explicit about my views on certain things. This is certainly not what you
want, believe me. BTW, the answer is NO.
Regarding "crap":
Using that word was a deliberate exaggeration (which I informed the readers
about btw). Purpose: to provoke a reaction other than just "yeah, heard
that one before. that's not really a problem, so we'll just fix it next time...
maybe". I'm glad I've got your full attention now.
"Crap" or maybe even "Heap of ...." is most likely what will be coming out of a
"could have been a new openSUSE"-user's mouth if (as stated in the
first mail about "gross bugs in GM") _certain_ things don't work for _whatever_
reason. It doesn't matter if the remaining 99.9% work as expected.
That's just the way it is. If you need/want a certain feature and don't get it
right away the result is... inevitable. Denial is futile.
Regarding "minimal testing":
I'm a paranoid, ignorant and lazy bastard, just like most people out there. I
just don't happen to have a spare computer I can dedicate to just doing
test installations (except three or four 486 machines, but they'd be of no use
nowadays). Testing stuff in a VM I can do anytime, but the information
gained is of limited value as far as real hardware is concerned. And I just
can't do any critical stuff on my main machines. Sure I've got lots of
backups in safe places and separate data partitions, but it's just not going to
happen. Never change a running system.
Some of the vital questions are:
How to do more useful testing effectively? Is it enough to ask people to
download live CDs and just look for "everything" at once? More automated
testing maybe? A more flexible release cycle? Who really can oppose a delayed
release if things get fixed, except maybe the [censored] sales [censored].
-----------
@BC:
"I didn't ask to be made: no one consulted me or considered my feelings in the
matter. I don't think it even occurred to them that I might have
feelings. After I was made, I was left in a dark room for six months... and me
with this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side. I called
for succour in my loneliness, but did anyone come? Did they hell. My first and
only true friend was a small rat. One day it crawled into a cavity in
my right ankle and died. I have a horrible feeling it's still there..."
R.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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