Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (279 mails)

["M9." <monkey9@xxxxxx>]

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*From:* Oddball <mailto:monkey9@xxxxxx>
*Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2009 11:52 AM
*To:* opensuse-factory@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:opensuse-factory@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Evaluation Partitioner/Grub.

Hi,
 
This might seem much to read, so if you are not realy interrested in
the subject, please skip.
I write this, because it takes much time to set up
dual, triple, quadruple or more boot, and it would be nice if it could
be set up, and worked when done.
Also, these set-ups are not made daily, and, they are supposed to be
useable for a longer period of time.
When starting to create such set-ups, it does not matter, that it
takes time to do so, but that it can be done.
So, when done setting up, one is not pleased to see some bugs, just
there, so the whole set-up is unuseable.
 
There was a discussion once about how to boot multiple os, without new
kernel installs messing up grub, and making everything unbootable, but
i could not find it.
A construction with a seperate small partition with bootloader, only
pointing to /boot directories of the individual systems, or something.
Helas i forgot the exact set-up.
If someone reminds, please reakt..
 
As i was aiming to install opensuse on an EEE-PC 901, i was confronted
with partitioner and grub again, so time to share my thoughts.
 
Partitioner looks much nicer, but has not become more simple to use.
For this part, there should be an adequate helpfile to be able to get
things done that have to be done.
 
EEE-PC 901 comes with windows XP-pre-installed, and a Norton
Ghost-image to restore the install.
Ofcourse this kind of install blows all away, as it formats first, and
than installs the image.
It is a DVD, so one needs an USB-DVD Drive to use it.
 
As i wrecked the xp install after a few days, i had no alternative, as
to buy one, for i could not use windows to do anything.
So i tried the 'restore' facility first, to see how and what.
 
In 901, there is a bios option called 'bootbooster'.
The only thing it does as i notice, is skipp the windows to enter the
bios and detection of hw.
Also, when enabled, the boot option screen cannot be entered, and it
boots imediately into windows,
so it has to be disabled, before one is able to perform restore or
intallation tasks.
 
Windows just is not my thing, but has all the options, as hotkeys, and
tray-shifting apps working just fine.
And it looks very smooth, on this small screen with large resolution:
1024x600. That makes it look like a fullgrown laptop.
Someway, i just like to have more OS on a system, to choose from, it
makes things look more complete, and the idea of having a choice,
allways makes me feel better.
 
Than i looked for ready to install Linux-OS.
There are, Xandros, with a new beta, eeebuntu, and: opensuse.
 
After some difficulties getting it, slow server, dying download,
someone send me a dvd with the new Xandros beta on it.
It works just like the asus-restore when booted from dvd: all blown
away, no options where to install: no partitioner: only option to
choose model, language and keyboard. Windows gone: only Xandros, buth
with Asus support.
- From the start i did not like it. Too simple, like for children or
older people, that have to learn how to use a pc: Hidden
rootfile-system, no /home.
So not my thing also...
 
eeebuntu would take me about 3 and a half hour to download, with
73-83Kb/s, option skipped.
As i had the USB-DVD-Drive, and the openSuSE 11.1 installation DVD, i
was ready to go.
 
At this point, the partitioner makes ready to enter the stage.
 
I realy enjoyed to watch the distinguished installer gui on this small
screen: Looks realy beautifull, Fonts just big enough, not too big,
very readable, all giving the illusion of space, much room, air to
breath..
First the hw-detection and loading of the installer are very nice to see..
 
At this place i would like to thank those who did the job to be able
to 'just' install onto an eee-pc.
Taking care of the kernel modules allready onboard of the 11.1
installation DVD. All these things had to be done to make it work, and
it does.
 
The Partitioner.
 
The default proposition, is using the ssd, and shrink windows to using
half of it.
I wanted to install on the sd.
 
It is not simple to manualy configure what i want: primary, extended,
fs. One has to be realy in it to remember: Do i need a primary here?
Or can extended be ok?
( i recalled one time an os did not boot not being on the primary
partition..but now i have on my pc's bootable partitions on the
extended partition..)
I went back to retry several times, did not overcome the problems
without becoming very excited, too many questions, and i wanted to go
on, so i choose to accept the default proposition:
Shrink windows, and install on the ssd.
Here i forgot to unmark the autoconfig option, because of going back
and starting over it was marked again, and i did not notice.
So i ended up with a hostname that i did not want,  networkmanager
that wasn't able to do the job, and an unbootable windows partition.
(hd0,0) chainloader +1 ???
In other words: I was f****ed!
 
openSuSE worked fine: installrepos allready configured, and after i
changed to ifup, wifi worked, and i could upgrade. First 2 nessary,
nicely selected, after that all the others, which brought me the fonts
i needed, so it became acceptable to look upon.
After the upgrade, the wireless network was gone again.
I was not pleased, but changed to networkmanager, that still did not
work, and back to ifup, and it worked again.
These things are realy not nice. They can work, so they should.
It must not be nessesary to manualy configure these things, again and
again, in these days.
 
As i had no usb-floppy-drive, to use fdisk to mbr back to windows, and
install grub again, i thought: maybe the restore dvd does not erase
the linux partitions: Wrong! It did.
 
Now i was going to try my original idea: opensuse on the sd.
I used an 8GB sandisk ultra II sd, as xtremeIII seemed to be to fast
for the 901, according to somebody that tried that, as on the inside
the sd reader goes through the usb 2.0, it cannot have the xtreme speed.
OK.
 
I decided to choose the default proposition the partitioner suggested:
swap 1.47GB, (windows uses this amount also on the ssd) / 5GB, and
/home around 995MB.
Small, but it was a test anyway.
It installs, but very very slow, and becomes even slower along the
proces. The performance is alike, too slow, so i would not advise
anyone else to try this also.
(as i probably will go for opensuse 11.1, update  to aqs far we can,
with KDE4.2. Alone on the ssd. As that was not even sluggish when
performing on the ssd, next to XP.)
 
Grub.
 
As the sd is an external drive, as usb-stick.
The drive letter changes when fi an usb stick is not in the slot.
The default here auto grub install, to install in mbr. As i noticed
when checked.
Now comes the problem: Only in the same config as the install was made
the system boots.
 
Were to put Grub?
I wanted to put it on the sdcard, with the idea that if it would not
be in the drive, it would automaticly boot windows.
Because bios is set to boot from external devices first.
It is very difficult to decide were it should go: sdc1, sdc2 or sdc3,
because it sees the partitions: swap, /, and /home.
The gui is very complicated, and maybe it is the dutch translation,
but it is not obvious what to choose.
I think, if one is forced to make the right decision, or else the
system fails to boot, one should be able to do that, as one gets only
one chance.
Wrong decision, is unbootable system.
My decision was not correct, but a black grub screen still enables me
too choose, but only if all is the same as during the install.
 
My wish was: to have adequate help on the place one needs it, and if
it is there, it is understandable, and it works, but on the first
place: Easy to use interface, with understandable choices!
 
Partitioner.
 
When in installer mode, no problem to make changes that concern
changing partitionsizes.
What about moving?
 
A useable partitioner would be like partition magic.
All real changes are performed before boot, when nothing is mounted.
A gui, very visual, lets you make every change you want, and shows you
how you want it: Resize, Move, delete create, some of  these things
are set in motion, only after
the system is umounted ofcourse, so a batch file is created, which
performs all the changes, one by one, before boottime, when nothing is
mounted, will this not be possible to have in opensuse someday?
 
Apart from some 'bugs', the partitioner is far more difficult to use
than the old one.
But i guess, nothing is finished imediately. The changes are created,
now make them work right.
 
Partitioner and Bootloader are most important, as they provide the
opportunity to have more than one OS, or fs on one hw-system.
One must have a secure feeling with them, and able to communicate in
an understandable 'language'.
 
Intuitivity would be inplace here, just like a depsolver, helping the
user make the right decision.
As computing power is available at this stage, it should be possible
to use it to 'look ahead' when a decision is made, without performing
it, to enable the user to make the right one, by proposing, as it
works now, but more advanced?
More than one possible scenario's that would work could be proposed,
in advanced mode?
Like an automatic simple mode, and an advanced multiple scenarios mode.
And ofcourse, the bootloader should be placed on the right place!
(unless one would be able to understand the options of it, than it
would be obvious.)
Or is that too much asked?
 
Like when there are several drives, but every seperate one is too
small, to bare a complete os with /home, like with the new eee-pc's.
They have many opportunities: SSD, SD, 3xUSB 2.0, To propose to have
only /home on an inserted 8GB Stick?
 
The latter are just thoughts, to inspire, nothing more..
 
my 2cts.
 
Oddball, from a ravaged eee-pc 901...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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