Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (673 mails)
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Re: [opensuse-factory] The KDE way for openSUSE 11.1
- From: "Rajko M." <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:18:18 -0500
- Message-id: <200809071018.18634.rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On Saturday 06 September 2008 09:36:37 pm Larry Stotler wrote:
No. It can be 3-4 years old.
See this.
KDE3 and KDE4 running at the same time:
~> free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 1930024 1862204 67820 0 88704 779576
-/+ buffers/cache: 993924 936100
Swap: 4104556 260 4104296
KDE3 only:
~> free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 1930024 1476488 453536 0 89004 779272
-/+ buffers/cache: 608212 1321812
Swap: 4104556 152 4104404
Who is better?
It is 64 bit, so 32 will easily fit in 256 MB.
First, users are demanding better graphics, because they have it elsewhere.
Second, it is one click in settings to turn on or off eye candies. I have some
enabled, some not. It is still time that some of them kill desktop, but that
is not unexpected for Factory.
Which is majority of computers in use anyway.
I have older pieces, but I can't say that they are used. Sometimes to see how
older hardware takes new OS, but that is all. After installation they
continue to collect dust, as they do most of the time.
...
You are right in percentage of features, but it is not that simple.
The FOSS is based on efforts that satisfy individual needs or interests of
developers. If that is important for 100% of users, like for kernel, or 1%
for development tools, that doesn't matter to FOSS developer. Most of the
software is developed using 100% of the available time for something that
will be usefull for him, and published just in case that someone else may
need it.
The KDE4 project attempts to concert effort of developers and users to produce
something without ballast of the past, but it seems that many users are
distracted with somewhat clumsy initial message. From developers prospective,
after months of ground work on libraries they very happy. That part they did
without user interaction, all coding and testing was on them and that was
reflected in optimistic tone in the announcement of new KDE4. When they have
seen reactions of users, they corrected statements, but some, not very
friendly and very loud users, discarded that as bad excuse.
Now your memory plays with you.
Pro version was just a bigger set of packages and anyone could download what
was missing on normal version. The difference in price was just to cover for
1 extra book and more CDs in pro version.
...
A built in GeForce 6100, or cheap FX 5200 suffice. That is what I use.
Some time ago I learned that $20 graphic card doesn't cut well, usually it is
just to little RAM on card and that keeps GPU busy to redraw something that
didn't change and could be just swapped, but $50 will the same GPU and more
RAM will do all I need.
Sure. My comments are only just that, MNSHO. :-)
--
Regards, Rajko
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On 9/6/08, Rajko M. <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Once people realize that old settings were just the best approximation of
graphical desktop, because computers at that time couldn't handle what
they can today, requests for new type of features will multiply and
number of differences will grow.
So, what, now we have to have a brand new computer to be able to use
KDE4?
No. It can be 3-4 years old.
See this.
KDE3 and KDE4 running at the same time:
~> free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 1930024 1862204 67820 0 88704 779576
-/+ buffers/cache: 993924 936100
Swap: 4104556 260 4104296
KDE3 only:
~> free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 1930024 1476488 453536 0 89004 779272
-/+ buffers/cache: 608212 1321812
Swap: 4104556 152 4104404
Who is better?
It is 64 bit, so 32 will easily fit in 256 MB.
My older P3 based laptops that have "ancient" and "old" video
chipsets should no longer be supported because of these new features
that users seems to have been "demanding"?
First, users are demanding better graphics, because they have it elsewhere.
Second, it is one click in settings to turn on or off eye candies. I have some
enabled, some not. It is still time that some of them kill desktop, but that
is not unexpected for Factory.
If that's the case, then
maybe we should just change the minimum requirements to a 2Ghz or
faster machine and no graphics card less than 2 years old?
Which is majority of computers in use anyway.
I have older pieces, but I can't say that they are used. Sometimes to see how
older hardware takes new OS, but that is all. After installation they
continue to collect dust, as they do most of the time.
...
Other distributions force change because Linux can't stay with GUI
developed for hardware capabilities from 2000. Presentations, or
eyecandies, move from specialized applications to desktop, and if OS
can't provide tools it will stay away from mainstream. ...
Eye candy isn't the end all and be-all. Remember, 80% of users only
use 20% of the features. Way too much effort is wasted to try to
please that other 20% tho. ...
You are right in percentage of features, but it is not that simple.
The FOSS is based on efforts that satisfy individual needs or interests of
developers. If that is important for 100% of users, like for kernel, or 1%
for development tools, that doesn't matter to FOSS developer. Most of the
software is developed using 100% of the available time for something that
will be usefull for him, and published just in case that someone else may
need it.
The KDE4 project attempts to concert effort of developers and users to produce
something without ballast of the past, but it seems that many users are
distracted with somewhat clumsy initial message. From developers prospective,
after months of ground work on libraries they very happy. That part they did
without user interaction, all coding and testing was on them and that was
reflected in optimistic tone in the announcement of new KDE4. When they have
seen reactions of users, they corrected statements, but some, not very
friendly and very loud users, discarded that as bad excuse.
SuSE used to have the seperate professional version. Maybe we need to
go back to that. Have a user oriented versions with all the bling and
have a power user version for those who are just interested in getting
their work done.
Now your memory plays with you.
Pro version was just a bigger set of packages and anyone could download what
was missing on normal version. The difference in price was just to cover for
1 extra book and more CDs in pro version.
...
KDE4 seems to be a lot of bling and if it needs a brand new Nvidia
8800GT or ATI Radeon 4850, then it's not for me.
A built in GeForce 6100, or cheap FX 5200 suffice. That is what I use.
Some time ago I learned that $20 graphic card doesn't cut well, usually it is
just to little RAM on card and that keeps GPU busy to redraw something that
didn't change and could be just swapped, but $50 will the same GPU and more
RAM will do all I need.
Again, these are my views and my opinions. I don't expect everyone to
agree. That's what these discussions are for - to help the devs found
out where the balance is.
Sure. My comments are only just that, MNSHO. :-)
--
Regards, Rajko
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