Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (673 mails)

["Larry Stotler" <larrystotler@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Martin Schlander
<martin.schlander@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yes, that's exactly why I think some users need a gentle kick in the ass, and
> the developers need to spend their time on fixing KDE4.x rather than
> supporting KDE3.

The devs need the kick, not the users.  They spent too much time
making bling and not enough time porting over the core system.
Forcing the users to accept the new system is what M$ does, not what
the FOSS community does.

> Don't get me wrong - I fully acknowledge that KDE4.1 lacks some nice features
> and polish that KDE3 has, and that migrating is painful because you have to
> reconfigure a lot of things and relearn things and change some workflows. I
> only fully migrated myself 5-6 weeks ago and the first 4-6 days were hell.

Well, I for one don't have the time to waste getting it to work.  I
have a job and kids to deal with.  If it takes away from my getting
stuff done, then it's not worth it.  COme to think of it, I probably
devote too much time to things like this list as well.  Maybe I should
move on since it appears I am going to be railroaded into using
something that is lacking compared to what I currently use.  Doesn't
matter that I've supported SuSE for 9+ years.

> But migrating won't become easier by putting it off - on the contrary I
> expect. And KDE 4.1 _does_ have a lot of nice features that KDE3 doesn't have
> - discarding it all as glitz is bullocks.

The glitz is the problem.  Too many users think that they need bling.
I need stability.  Linux is known for stability.  SuSE is known for
stability.  10.1 had enough issues.  Are we going to have to start
skipping x.1 releases because of things like this?

> It's funny, most of the people doing comparisons of KDE4 with Microsoft or
> Windows seem to have the mindset of Microsoft customers.

I've been a WinDoZE hater for as long as that piece of garbage has
been around.  I take offense at that comment.  :-)

> Only caring about their own immediate convenience - not giving a hoot about
> what's good for KDE or the free software desktop in general in the bigger
> picture - and certainly not willing to make any small sacrifice or contribute
> with something.

I'll remember that when I think that it's time to pull the next alpha
or beta to test it out.  I guess I don't, and haven't made any
sacrifices to help make openSUSE a better product.

> "Boycotting" and complaining might be a good strategy for unhappy MS Windows
> Vista customers...
> .. but it _doesn't_ make KDE4 better - usage, constructive feedback and
> contributions _does_. That's how a free software community project like KDE
> works.

I've boycotted WinDoZe for years.  I've argued for what I feel is the
best for the community, not for my personal choice.  If KDE 4.2 is
going to have everything that KDE3.x has, then we need to reset our
release date so that we can have the full KDE, not a backported and
feature incomplete version.

And keep in mind that a lof of users aren't adding in the KDE build
service, so they are stuck with 4.0.x, and don't have the newer 4.1
that a lot of us have updated to.  This needs to be considered as
well.

If we are serious about removing 3.5.x, then we need to wait for 4.2.
Anything else is a bad idea and will come back to bite us badly.  Is
it really neccessary to push 11.1 out and then have 4.2 be released
not long after?  Delays are common in software, and no one will tink
any less if that happens, and most will be more appriciative if it
does.
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