Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (475 mails)

[Richard <ricreig@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri August 29 2008 11:55:07 am Michael Loeffler wrote:
> Hi, 
>
> as discussed in a former project meeting we should discuss how we handle KDE 
> in openSUSE 11.1. To avoid any misunderstanding we will offer on the DVD 
> still 
> KDE and Gnome. It just the question which or how many KDE's ;-)
TWO

Version 3.5.9+
Version 4.1

> The proposal of the internal team (beineri, michl, cthiel, aj, klaas, 
> mlasars, 
> zonker) is trying to make KDE 4.1 as good as possible and maintain our 
> reputation to offer the best integrated KDE. Top 3 reasons for that: 
> - KDE 4.1 is ready for prime time
No, it is not ready for prime time, it is past Alpha, thankfully, well into 
beta, but not ready for prime time.

> - clear decision and move to the future
No problem with that, but moving into the future should not preclude useability 
by ramming beta or not-quite-primetime or features to be added later if you cry 
loud enough and file bug reports desktops when a stable and tried and proven 
version exists.   Make BOTH available and clearly distinguished.

> - limited ressources
If there are truly limited resources, then find other things to leave to 
downloads from repos, but NOT essentials like the Gnome, KDE 3.59, KDE 4.1 
desktop environments.  As much as I like OpenOffice, it is huge and could be 
loaded from a repo if it won't fit on a DVD (as an example).

> KDE 4.1 is released and - no doubt - much better than 4.0. But there are 
> still 
> discussions that KDE 4.1 lacks some capabilities KDE 3.5.x had. If you have 
> any issue with KDE 4.1 on openSUSE please report a bug to drive attention on 
> it and patches are also welcome ;-)
This is NOT the job of USERS of a RELEASE version, it is, if anything, a 
FUNCTION of beta testers and volunteers.   USERS of a RELEASE version should 
have SOME EXPECTATION of a COMPLETE and FUNCTIONAL and STABLE release with few 
or no needs to complain and bitch and file bug reports.   That should have 
already been done during testing phases and corrected before the release.   
Arbitrary release dates are nice, but releasing on an arbitrary date with known 
bugs is foolish and gives SuSE a black eye every time you do it!   Rather you 
be a few days late on your GOAL date than release a known bug!


> What can/should we do?
> a) Delivery of KDE 4.1 on media as our default KDE desktop, add some 3.5.x 
> applications where necessary, older KDE through online repos
> Pros: 
> - clear position and direction to the future
> - KDE 4.1 ready for the mayority of users
> - focus of efforts to KDE 4.1

It isn't ready yet.   As a current beta tester using both versions, I still 
have to use 3.5.9 for too much real work.   IT ISN'T READY YET!

> Cons: 
> - some users will lack certain features or habits 
THEN IT ISN'T READY, don't remove 'certain features', that is poor practice.   
Wait until those 'certain features' ARE available, then I doubt anyone will 
bitch and moan about which version is released or not released IF EVERYTHING 
WORKS AND ALL FUNCTIONS ARE PRESENT.


> b) We may add again both KDEs to the DVD 
> Pros: we offer choice and may make everybody happy
> Cons: 
> - space limitations on DVD may prevent this option
> - maintenance and integration of 2 KDE desktops needed which the internal KDE 
> team hardly can accomplish
> - we're backing a desktop which anyway won't receive much attention from 
> upstream anymore

BEST CHOICE.   So what, 3.5.9 is stable, has few bugs and doesn't need much 
attention from upstream.

> - confusion - which KDE should I choose
So, make it crystal clear, 4.1 is BETA quality, cutting edge and will be the 
future but is incomplete at the moment.   3.5.9 is STABLE, COMPLETE and what 
you want if you need to get the job done and does not preclude you from trying 
out 4.1 at any time later, even simultaneously, to check on progress.

> Please bring up your opinion so that we're doing the right thing for openSUSE 
> 11.1
>
> Best
> M

You got my opinion,
Richard
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