Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (393 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Printing in openSUSE 10.3
  • From: Johannes Meixner <jsmeix@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:04:55 +0100 (CET)
  • Message-id: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0703080845530.12815@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hello,

On Mar 7 10:46 JP Rosevear wrote (shortened):
> On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 16:39 +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
> > On Mar 7 10:30 JP Rosevear wrote (shortened):
> > > On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 10:58 +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
> > > > Your info is too terse for me.
> > > > I still do not understand the end-user's situation.
> > > > Please do not misunderstand me - I don't want to do nitpicking.
> > > > But I need to understand the whole picture from the end-user's point
> > > > of view - otherwise whatever nice-looking implementation may not
> > > > solve the actual end-user problem.
> > >
> > > The situtation is the end user doesn't want to type in a password
> > > to do simple operations.
> >
> > Frommy point of viwe it seems from mail to mail
> > you change the issue (it started with USB printers,
> > became network printers, now it is about typing passwords)
> > and it seems you still don't tell the whole story.
>
> No, the user should not need root to include any printers, I just didn't
> explicitly call out network printers to begin with and I should have.

You mix up many different things is your requests
that I don't know what you actually want.

I asked you several times to provide more info about the
original problem and the user situation but all I get
are terse snippets which are useless at least for me.

You talk about USB printers and home users and about printing
in big networks with hundreds of printers (obviously now a
business environment) where dedicated admins exist and full
automated setup of printers (in the network?) and not being
root to set up printing (in the network?) and whatever else
may come into mind when talking about "the printing stuff".

Please be 100% exact with your wording - at least try
to be as exact as you can!

I had it in the past so often that discussions get lost
in a mess of non-exact words like the ancient
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusion_of_tongues

For example "no need to be root to do something" is different
to "not type in a password".

If there is a policy in cupsd.conf which allows the normal
user "johndoe" to do any printer setup, then the cupsd does
authentication (i.e. it asks for the password of johndoe):
--------------------------------------------------------------------
johndoe$ /usr/sbin/lpadmin -p test -v parallel:/dev/lp0 -E
Password for johndoe on localhost?
[johndoe must type in his password]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I know this is because for the cupsd there is just
a IPP request comming in (the lpadmin command can work from
any host to any host in the network) and the cupsd must
make sure that it is really johndoe who sent this IPP request.
On the other hand I wonder why cupsd doesn't need to do the
same kind of explicite authentication for root on localhost.
I will ask on the CUPS mailing list why cupsd does explicite
authentication for normal users on localhost.


> > > > Why do you want to implement Windows-stlye printing
> > > > when we use CUPS on Linux?
> > >
> > > Because its what most users expect and want, even many linux ones.
> >
> > I am afraid but it seems now we are at a dead end.
>
> Why exactly are we at a dead end? We agreed in the dist meeting not
> needing root to configure a printer was a valid use case.

We are at a dead end when you want to pervert how printing
is done under Unix/Linux operating sytems (for CUPS and even
for the old-stlye Unix/Linux printing systems like LPR and LPRng)
into how printing is done under Windows (and iPrint).

Because you wrote "most users expect and want" this,
it means you want to do Windows-stlye printing by default.

This is the dead end.

Again:
Please be exact with your wording!

"do Windows-stlye printing" is different to "no need to be root
to do something" (which is different to "not type in a password").

Of course when the Linux system is in a Windows-only environment
(or in an iPrint environment) then the Linux system must do
Windows-stlye printing but this is different to do Windows-stlye
printing by default.

Compare
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:CUPS_in_a_Nutshell
"Intrinsic design of CUPS for printing in the network"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
the queues of the server are available directly on the client.
...
* no local queues on clients and
* no changes in the default settings for cupsd on clients.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
with
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Printing_via_SMB_%28Samba%29_Share_or_Windows_Share
"Background Information"
------------------------------------------------------------------
The SMB host does not convert the print data from the applications
(e.g., PostScript) to printer-specific data. Therefore, the
filtering must take place on the Linux host, which requires
a complete print system on the Linux host. A queue with
filtering must be set up on the Linux host.
------------------------------------------------------------------
For iPrint it is the same as for SMB.


Kind Regards
Johannes Meixner
--
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany
AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex
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