Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1165 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] tiny-nvidia-installer removed from factory
  • From: Sid Boyce <sboyce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:51:22 +0000
  • Message-id: <4549E9CA.1030805@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Pascal Bleser wrote:
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Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 01:01:37PM +0100, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
No real explanation given. [...]
WONTFIX, build it in the BS. WTF!
That's a perfectly valid reason. You can build it in the build service
or wait for others to do it.
BTW, see

project: home:sndirsch package: tiny-nvidia-installer

Better copy it immediately. I plan to remove it again pretty soon.

SUSE has no obligation to fulfill your
wishes unless you have a very convincing reason (and no, it's not you
who needs to be convinced).

Carl-Daniel.. geez... wth are you talking about.
Of course they have no obligations, except that if Novell really wants
"openSUSE" and a community, then they do in order to make it work.

John (the OP), Benjamin and I are amongst those who are on the "front"
on IRC with new SUSE users and less experienced ones, who are asking for
help.

If such tools (like y2pmsh or tiny-nvidia-installer) *are* helpful from
our experience, then I *do* think it's a valid point.

Wrt the "openSUSE" community, we're doing a big job there and believe it
or not, #suse is one of the most qualified and helpful linux support
rooms on IRC.

I gave him a bunch of reasons.

Yes, after he reopened the bug ;)

1) It's an undocumented way to install the NVIDIA driver. The driver update
process should be used instead - if possible. Otherwise use the official
installer. See http://www.suse.de/~sndirsch/nvidia-installer-HOWTO.html
for details.
2) There's no official download location for up-to-date sources for it, so
sooner or later it gets broken anyway and I won't notice, because I no
longer use it.
3) IMHO using tiny-nvidia-installer is completely useless. Using it looks
easy in the first place - given that you have gcc and kernel-source
installed, but you'll wake up after the first kernel update (Xserver
is no longer starting!), because you need to recompile the kernel
module after each update. Since this is a manual step anyway, IMHO
it's better to know what you're doing and having the complete
installer already on your harddisk. At least then you don't need to
download the complete driver again and again. IMHO this is well
documented in my HOWTO.

http://www.suse.de/~sndirsch/nvidia-installer-HOWTO.html

Probably he cannot be convinced, because he is used to this tool,
relies on it and it somewhat works for him (good enough).

Stefan, I'm sure that in your focus or your coworkers at SUSE, indeed,
it's a useless tool, it's as easy to grab the NVIDIA-*.run from their
site. So it is to me, to the OP, or probably almost everyone on this list.

The point is, spend some more time on #suse and you'll see the kind of
issues we're trying to help people with.

IMO the most annoying things are, in no particular order:
(1) no command-line (or trivial) way to add repositories (aka
"installation sources")
(2) adding repositories like Packman and mine to get a full-featured
amarok, mplayer, etc...
(3) installing the proprietary nvidia and ati drivers

While improvement is underway with (1)(rug doesn't do the trick, need
something without zmd) and we probably can't do anything about (2) for
the reasons we all know, tiny-nvidia-installer *is* helpful for (3).

Obviously, as Benjamin wrote in a previous mail of this thread, having
KMPs is even better (if they are kept up-to-date with nvidia drivers, at
least somewhat, and especially with kernel package releases from the
online updates), no question.

But if the KMPs are not present or cannot be used, believe me, it's yet
another problem to tell beginners where and how to get the .run file
from nvidia, and tiny-nvidia-installer actually is pretty helpful wrt that.

The most annoying thing with the installation of nvidia's driver is
having to switch to runlevel 3 though, by a large margin.
Sounds easy ? Sure. But when people are on IRC with xchat, konversation,
kopete or chatzilla and you're telling them what to do to install it,
they have to quit their IRC client. So, what happens if anything goes
wrong ? You can't guide them step-by-step anymore either.
(maybe a simple command as a shell script that gets you to #suse on
freenode with irssi would help ;))

Up to SUSE 9.3, the script used by the online update patch used some
trickery to fool the nvidia driver installer - maybe that's still a good
enough approach to make it easier.

I've started a shell script that checks prerequisites, warns/stops if X
is running, pulls the latest nvidia driver from their website (works for
32bit and 64bit) and then runs the installer, but it sure needs more
testing. Maybe it's even a good idea to make an RPM out of it, with
Requires: make gcc glibc-devel kernel-source
in it.
http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/nvidia-installer.sh

Anyhow, John (the OP)'s point is that it is a real benefit of having it
in the default selection, because it removes yet another (difficult)
step for beginners.

But then again, maybe installing packages and adding repositories is
still to complex in the first place.
If that was trivial to do, even for beginners, it would make a lot of
things easier.

cheers
- --

Perhaps someone who cares and is capable can take this on if SuSE cannot, after all openSUSE is what it says. I don't know how useful this tool is, never heard of it until now and have never found a necessity to use anything from SuSE to install ATI or NVidia drivers.
ATI script does something distro specific, but often doesn't work - I have had a kernel related problem that I reported to them 2 releases previous and it's still there.
NVidia's stuff always works with their instructions and when you hit problems with kernel changes, patches are relatively swift arriving - running kernel 2.6.19-rc4 on x86 (10.2Beta1) and x86_64 (10.1) with NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9626-pkg1.run (Beta)+ patches.
IMHO as NVidia does such a good job, there are far more pressing issues to be tackled by the openSUSE team.
Regards
Sid.
--
Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach
Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks

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