Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (757 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Package Management Design and Experience
  • From: Druid <marcio.ferreira@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 14:05:24 -0300
  • Message-id: <80829d260605291005j32f6ee1at4c5a9987e0720ee9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Agreed with most of Benjamin.

One thing Id like to say is that Im not expecting this "design" of now to
continue in 10.2, as you will have time to work on it, no need for a
hack-ish solution, which is agreed by most people Ive asked, non suse
people, zmd people, ppl who work in yast, etc.

Im referring to the dual repositories synchronization situation, which is
clearly a design chosen because of the lack of time due to the 10.1 release
and the following sled/sles releases. So if you ask me for ways to improve
the design, Id say to forget the way its done now and do the correct way,
and not try to "make this one better", as its clear "wrong by principle"
having the 2 side by side. Its like having an "official" and a 3rd party
manager by default.

Based on that draw (
http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/7/78/Package-management-in-code10.png),
the solution seems creating a zmd module to yast. At least, seems most
logical for me, and yast PM then would no longer be acessing libzypp
directly.

Besides that, one would need to optimize the helpers and libzypp operation
as it was already stated in previous discussions.

thats my 2 bits

Marcio Ferreira



On 5/29/06, B.Weber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <B.Weber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> One question we have is how the new tools rug, zen-updater and zmd
> compare to what we had before with YaST Online Update and
> suseWatcher. We are interested in every feedback ranging from
> architecture, design or used standards and their enhancements.

Going by

http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/7/78/Package-management-in-code10.png
the YaST package management talks straight to libzypp rather than zmd,
while rug and zen-updater etc talk to zmd. Presumably this is where the
synchronisation issues come from. The package management seems far more
reliable when using just rug with yum repositories avoiding the
synchronisation.

It seems clear the current situation with yast and zmd frontends working
in different ways and synchronisation between them is not the way things
should work. Presumably yast sw_single, YOU etc should become frontends to
ZMD also. However, I am not sure whether this is possible, I have made my
own frontend to ZMD and could not find a way to use the api from something
other than mono (if there is please tell me :).

The user interface for package management and updating is also possibly
one of areas requiring most urgent attention as this is how many users
judge SUSE's package management. The yast sw_single interface is starting
to show its age when compared with tools such as Adept and Synaptic (not
that these are perfect either) and there is a complete lack of progress
bars in the most important of places. There are some very good ideas in a
file /usr/share/doc/packages/yast2-packagemanager/pkg-sel-ideas.txt from
~2002 which presumably were never implemented. The current interface does
not cope well with multiple online repositories, not to mention the lack
of progress bars while downloading large quantities of data. This will get
more important still when the build service is completed and something
like http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/ will be used. As
for updating this is something I think windows does right. I think there
should be a notification applet for updates and the user should not have
to worry about the mechanics of where the updates are coming from or what
updates to select (unless He/She chooses to). Oh and having deltarpms back
would be nice.

Benjamin Weber

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