Am Dienstag, 14. Februar 2006 19:50 schrieb Hans-Peter Jansen:
Am Dienstag, 14. Februar 2006 18:06 schrieb Marcus Meissner:
Several modules will be gone from the shipping media.
There will be an interface between 3rd party vendors and Novell to provide kernel modules (in the KMP style described there), making it easy for those 3rd party vendors to build modules.
They can be offered by those vendors as easily installable resource (RPMs).
Nothing is stopping normal packagers (like the packman guys, or who ever) to not just also offer kernel modules in this way.
I understand (don't know for sure) that we are working with NVIDIA and ATI to make downloading their drivers possible this way.
This is btw one reason for the packagemanager changes, that this package installation from multiple external sites is possible.
Hmm, how do you download something, if the e.g. AVM DSL/ISDN Combo Card driver is missing (like it's the situation here), and that's the only way to internet?
[fecicious] Down load it before updating/installing? [/fecicious] See my comments elsewhere, this sort of information needs to be made generally available so people can prepare for the update, or wait until AVM (or other manufactuers) have re-written their drivers to comply.
Sure, hopefully you already ordered the big fat red warning sticker for the boxed product which explains, that things which just worked before, won't do anymore!
Hopefully this sort of change (dropping non-GPL Kernel modules) will soon be described on the News page, with some sort of impact anaylsis for existing users - what the likely scenarios are for things not working "out of the box" any more.
While I understand SUSE/NOVELLs standpoint concerning nongpl modules/packages, I also see, that you're in fact loosing a unique selling proposition, like Sven Schmidt noted by imposing a chicken/egg problem to your users, which can only be circumvented, if carefully planning an install/upgrade process.
As a consequence, a bulk of reasons to choose SUSE Linux as preferred OS and to recommend that to customers is lost, since you enqueue yourself in the broad range of arbitrary LINUX Products without outstanding differences and continously loosing on the user friendliness front.
Yes, I feel kind of bitterness, since I was responsible for a couple of XYZ Linux to SUSE Linux (9.3) server transitions in the last few month exactly because the avm drivers are included. The main reason was, that this critical part has to be recompiled on kernel updates, which isn't something, I can expect from those customers.
It first came to my attention a week or so ago (that the non-GPL Kernel modules were being dropped), so I would expect people like AVM have known for longer. There are alternatives which AVM can work towards, either open sourcing their drivers or using the KPM route described by AJ in the IRC meeting minutes from 6 Feb. Putting all the blame on SUSE is unfair, AVM have had time, and still have more time until the release of 10.1, to "get their act together" in this regard. That said, I was very impressed with AVM's customer support, I bought a Fritz!Box DSL WLAN/VOIP box and it looked like somebody in the shop had opened the packaging and removed the CD, 24hrs. after purchase AVM had delivered a replacement driver CD. If they can put this sort of commitment into working with the Linux community to provide drivers which are acceptable, I can't see this being a long term problem...
I really hope, that SUSE get the package manager - before 10.1 release - to the point, where it prevents kernel updates, unless external kernel modules, which are tagged as critical for it's proper operation, are available. Otherwise, automatic updates cannot work, which is the real selling point here..
Even if I'm not in a position to comment the way, this decision was made, but it's bad style to do it very shortly before a release - actively preventing concerned parties to catch up / work around the newly imposed issues. Really bad style.
Pete
Personally I would like to see a commitment by the driver makers, such as AVM, nVidia and Ati to move towards either OS'ing their drivers (ideal world) or at least moving to User Level drivers or KPM and if the driver makers are showing true commitment to get the conversion done, then including the old style as an interim measure for the next release if the new style drivers can't be made available on time. This would act as a carrot and stick approach for them, if they genuinely make an effort, they have a little more time to get their acts together (10.2 beta) and if they appear unwilling to make any effort, just drop their drivers. But I guess this would be too tricky to judge fairly... I also don't know when this measure was actually announced, I just "picked it up in passing" at the 6 Feb IRC meeting, so I don't know if the manufacturers have already had a reasonable amount of time... Dave