Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-edu (56 mails)

[James Tremblay aka SLEducator <fxrsliberty@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

*The original goal of the module, as described by jdsn (and as
documented on the wiki at http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Education), was
to:

* Create/edit/delete users and assign them to "edu-groups".

"what groups are handled as edu-groups is defined in the
edu-users sysconfig file. Only these groups will be displayed, only
users of these groups can be created, edited and deleted."  As noted in
my last post, I believe that one should also be able to create custom
edu-groups from within the Education module.

----JT: Works for me!

* Assign Sabayon/Kiosk tool templates to these edu-groups.

The module does not handle the creation/editing of said templates, but
only allows existing templates to be assigned to edu-groups.

----JT: I have tried to get the OS team to keep the Sabayon module
working. However, it may be that we need to adopt the module as a EDU
component, if we want it do so, even though this is clearly a Gnome
component. With this module running we could install all the desktop
software and just manage the menus according to age group.  Zonker?

* Configure a transparent proxy and Internet filter, if desired.

 As James pointed out, this should not be forced on the user (since they
might already be doing site-wide filtering), but should be an option.
My plan is to develop another module for configuring
Dansguardian/Squidguard that the parent/teacher could then later use to
configure filtering.


----JT: I would further point out that this whole "build a proxy server
and filter it" thing should be the domain of the OS team (YaST: Network
Services > Internet Proxy\Cache and Filtering) not our subproject. But
since we need it to help schools protect children..... Zonker?


* Configure firewall settings for each group, if desired.

  I envision this as a list of well-known applications where the user
can check/uncheck entire groups (e.g. Chat programs) or specific
applications (e.g. Pidgin).  The module would then handle blocking the
appropriate ports in the SuSE firewall.

-----JT: This should be dealt with as an enhancement request to the OS
team for the YaST Firewall module.  Zonker?


* Doug Glenn suggested the ability to import a list of students from a
CSV file, for example.  The module would then create these students,
saving the administrator from the menial task of having to create them
one by one.  I like this idea, and it's simple to implement.

----JT: This is an extremely nice idea, Thanks Doug

* Doug also suggested the ability to allow non-root users to use the
module.  For instance, if I'm a school administrator, I might want to
give a teacher the ability to control the computers in his/her
classroom, but I might not necessarily want to give him/her root.  This
is certainly a nice to have, but gets a little hairy when we have to
deal with configuring firewall rules as a non-root user, etc.
Nevertheless, there could be a "root" mode to the module, as well as a
"teacher" mode.

----JT: Again, Thanks Doug

* Lars suggested the ability to assign schedules to various groups,
allowing hours of usage to be restricted, and ensure that kids can't use
the computer past their bedtime. :)  I think this is extremely useful,
at least in the home domain.

----JT: This should be dealt with as an enhancement to the YaST user
module as a logon restriction. Business's would use this to keep workers
from one shift being logged on during another.  Zonker?

* Lars also mentioned the ability to send a report to the parent/teacher
stating the web sites that were blocked.  I think this falls under the
Dansguardian module that I would be developing, and would certainly add
that functionality to that module.

-----JT: should be part of the proxy server module , Novell's
Bordermanager and Astaro both do this as "rule hitting" logs. I believe
Novell is working on a Bordermanager replacement for Linux, maybe they
intend to have an open source base module with a closed source
enhancement. Someone should ask, no sense duplicating efforts, Zonker?

* James has suggested that the module should actually install specific
software applications according to pre-defined groups, and should allow
the configuration of desktop software vs. server software.  My feeling
on this is mixed.  On the one hand, I see what Lars is saying.  By
having the module install software, we're infringing on the domain of
sw_single and the software patterns that have been created for the
Education CD.  Furthermore, if sw_single is run in the installation
workflow, and the user selects packages and patterns to install, is it
not then confusing to have the Education module ask again about software
patterns that should be installed?  I would be sitting there thinking,
"I just selected my patterns a few minutes ago, why are you asking me
again about what software should be installed?"

*On the other hand, sw_single is not necessarily very user friendly for
users with limited openSUSE knowledge and it would be good to have a
simple wizard that would allow someone to specify, "I want to install
applications appropriate to elementary school students" and those
applications would be automatically installed.

*My feeling here is that this is important to have as a separate module
in the installation workflow, as Lars suggested, but I don't think it
fits with the vision of the Education module (perhaps Education module
is the wrong name?).  I view the module as a "I've installed my system,
made my software choices, and now I want to lock it down" type of module
-- one that runs late in the installation workflow (e.g. after reboot).
I realize this is going to be a point of contention, but let's discuss
this further.

----JT: Since the conception of the Education project, I have been
trying to further the idea that non-technical people in education, aka
Teachers, need our assistance. They are constantly FORCED to build
computer labs and support technology without budgets to hire
professionals. Overriding sw_single with a module that introduces less
choices yet presents choices based on the target location \ user group
is indeed the core idea and reason I worked so hard to get this project
started. In concept this would go one step further than Edubuntu, which
provides almost no installation choices at all. If someone wants a
machine based on the choices available in the default OS and they have
enough knowledge to make advanced choices from sw_single while in the
default OS, then they can set up a proxy server/firewall/Dan's
Guardian/etc. and add the software for their curriculum from the
internet without our help.

* Lastly, James, you indicate your interest in focusing on the school
first, and home second.  Lars, you feel it should be the other way
around.  I think we're just arguing semantics here.  My feeling is that
we can satisfy both domains with the features I have laid out above.
These domains are, by no means, mutually exclusive. The same basic needs
are there: controlling what applications can be run, what protocols can
be used, and what sites we want our kids to be visiting.

----JT: if the schools need to target the 3 teaching groups
(Elementary,Middle,High school) are met, we will have already met the
parents needs. Parents are another group that don't have a lot of
technical expertise, yet, need to help a child.
   If while presenting the choices for the group the child\target
machine belongs to, we also present a choice to "use internet filtering"
we succeed in supporting the school and the parent.

My overarching goal here is to present an education system on a disk.
A soup to nuts approach to technology for educators. We already have the
tools "in the wild" to do this, I just wanted to bring it all to one
spot and simplify the installation. AKA "Education Technology for
Dummies" like the books.

After reading this over and over again, I'm beginning to think maybe you
should build a new YaST Module to replace Sabayon and the Kiosk tool
with some enhancements for group creation. The rest is beginning to
sound like reasonable requests of the OS team.

Eternally Grateful,
James

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