Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-edu (303 mails)
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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: free software
- From: ian <ian.lynch2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:15:44 +0000 (UTC)
- Message-id: <1070320373.20543.38.camel@localhost>
On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 22:37, Christopher Dawkins wrote:
> [quotes not fully attributed as I have edited them]
>
> >>> How does open source get created. Where do these people get
> >>> the time?
> >>
> >> If you don't know the answer to that question then you shouldn't
> >> be on this list
> >
> > I am on this list ;-) I still don't know the answer.
>
> The list is open to all. I am sure Colin actually knows the answer,
> although it took me many years to work it out. I wrote a private paper
> last year in an (unsuccessful) attempt to explain it to someone who I
> wanted to persuade to make his software available for free. What I wrote
> is on
>
> http://www.felsted.essex.sch.uk/~cchd/software.html
>
> and I reckon the dynamics are unstoppable for items of sofware small
> enough to be encompassed by one person. I still do not completely
> understand how the economics are sustainable in the long term for large
> items (such as Linux, Apache, Mozilla and OpenOffice) that need a team of
> full-time programmers.
I think these are sustainable quite easily by the large corporates and
governments who depend on them. Its taking time but the evidence is that
we are well on the way to the transition between 2) and 3) below.
"Like all revolutionary new ideas, the subject has had to pass through
three stages, which may be summed up by these reactions: 1)'It's crazy -
don't waste my time'; 2)'It's possible, but it's not worth doing'; 3)'I
always said it was a good idea.'" (from Clarke's 1968 address to the 4th
International Symposium on Bioastronautics and the Exploration of Space.
When China say they intend to install 200 million Linux desktops, I
doubt there will be a shortage of Linux development. When some
government wakes up and realises putting £1m into OpenOffice.org
development to fill any functional gaps that schools needs is better
value than spending £100m on ELCs because it will actually save more
money than the investment we will know we are into stage 3. Colin asked
what features were in OpenSource assuming they will be lacking compared
to MS products. Yes there are gaps, but also OO.o for example is
superior in a number of ways to MS Office now eg direct export to Flash
and Pdf, a generally agreed style editor that is better, an Open XML
file format, available cross-platform. In fact adding any must have
features is relatively in expensive in terms of DfES spending so why not
just implement them and let everyone benefit? We need to win political
hearts and minds, not just expect "the market to provide" when we all
know that the market is so distorted all it can deliver without
intervention is more of the same.
Instead of just sitting wringing our hands let's put pressure on the
DfES for change. I have had several questions asked in Parliament,
started action against MSSA with the OFT, had a meeting with my EuroMP
who came to my house to discuss software patents, got BECTa in touch
with several sites for their (silly) TCO evaluations etc. If I can do it
you can and if you believe that we would be better off with open
standards make the effort. Everyone on this list could come to the
FLOSSIE conference and encourage others to do so. There will be
influential people there and they need to see and hear the arguments
from people who understand the issues.
Things are not going to change over night but clearly there is progress
across the globe.
> But there is no evidence that the Microsoft model is sustainable in the
> long term, either - indeed, there are several likely calamity scenarios
> for that model anyway.
Microsoft themselves will survive on their cash reserves for decades but
it only takes Windows or Office to collapse to decimate their
profitability. There really is very little new in Office 2003 which is
evidence that the software is mature and isn't going anywhere. Why
bother upgrading from Office 97/2000/XP if there is no particular
functional advantage and there isn't any for most users. If you look at
the development plan for OO.o 2.0 due next year then say give it another
year of development, by 2005 it could well be that even the most
sceptical die hard will have to admit OO.o is more than a match for MS
Office and it will be free, open file format and cross platform. Look at
the rate of change not what is here now if you want a vision for the
future.
> Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG
> 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
ian <ian.lynch2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> [quotes not fully attributed as I have edited them]
>
> >>> How does open source get created. Where do these people get
> >>> the time?
> >>
> >> If you don't know the answer to that question then you shouldn't
> >> be on this list
> >
> > I am on this list ;-) I still don't know the answer.
>
> The list is open to all. I am sure Colin actually knows the answer,
> although it took me many years to work it out. I wrote a private paper
> last year in an (unsuccessful) attempt to explain it to someone who I
> wanted to persuade to make his software available for free. What I wrote
> is on
>
> http://www.felsted.essex.sch.uk/~cchd/software.html
>
> and I reckon the dynamics are unstoppable for items of sofware small
> enough to be encompassed by one person. I still do not completely
> understand how the economics are sustainable in the long term for large
> items (such as Linux, Apache, Mozilla and OpenOffice) that need a team of
> full-time programmers.
I think these are sustainable quite easily by the large corporates and
governments who depend on them. Its taking time but the evidence is that
we are well on the way to the transition between 2) and 3) below.
"Like all revolutionary new ideas, the subject has had to pass through
three stages, which may be summed up by these reactions: 1)'It's crazy -
don't waste my time'; 2)'It's possible, but it's not worth doing'; 3)'I
always said it was a good idea.'" (from Clarke's 1968 address to the 4th
International Symposium on Bioastronautics and the Exploration of Space.
When China say they intend to install 200 million Linux desktops, I
doubt there will be a shortage of Linux development. When some
government wakes up and realises putting £1m into OpenOffice.org
development to fill any functional gaps that schools needs is better
value than spending £100m on ELCs because it will actually save more
money than the investment we will know we are into stage 3. Colin asked
what features were in OpenSource assuming they will be lacking compared
to MS products. Yes there are gaps, but also OO.o for example is
superior in a number of ways to MS Office now eg direct export to Flash
and Pdf, a generally agreed style editor that is better, an Open XML
file format, available cross-platform. In fact adding any must have
features is relatively in expensive in terms of DfES spending so why not
just implement them and let everyone benefit? We need to win political
hearts and minds, not just expect "the market to provide" when we all
know that the market is so distorted all it can deliver without
intervention is more of the same.
Instead of just sitting wringing our hands let's put pressure on the
DfES for change. I have had several questions asked in Parliament,
started action against MSSA with the OFT, had a meeting with my EuroMP
who came to my house to discuss software patents, got BECTa in touch
with several sites for their (silly) TCO evaluations etc. If I can do it
you can and if you believe that we would be better off with open
standards make the effort. Everyone on this list could come to the
FLOSSIE conference and encourage others to do so. There will be
influential people there and they need to see and hear the arguments
from people who understand the issues.
Things are not going to change over night but clearly there is progress
across the globe.
> But there is no evidence that the Microsoft model is sustainable in the
> long term, either - indeed, there are several likely calamity scenarios
> for that model anyway.
Microsoft themselves will survive on their cash reserves for decades but
it only takes Windows or Office to collapse to decimate their
profitability. There really is very little new in Office 2003 which is
evidence that the software is mature and isn't going anywhere. Why
bother upgrading from Office 97/2000/XP if there is no particular
functional advantage and there isn't any for most users. If you look at
the development plan for OO.o 2.0 due next year then say give it another
year of development, by 2005 it could well be that even the most
sceptical die hard will have to admit OO.o is more than a match for MS
Office and it will be free, open file format and cross platform. Look at
the rate of change not what is here now if you want a vision for the
future.
> Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG
> 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
ian <ian.lynch2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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