Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-edu (171 mails)
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Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Informed legislators!
- From: "Frank Shute" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:36:27 +0000 (UTC)
- Message-id: <20020507192322.A2157@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 08:09:24AM +0100, Damian wrote:
>
> Frank Shute wrote:
>
> >On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
> >
> >
> >>(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians
> >>are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the
> >>World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these
> >>attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people
> >>who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the
> >>British population at the last count.)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people,
> >why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source
> >software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money &
> >confidentiality?
> >
> I have dealt with at least two UK politicians who have given an
> intelligent, fair and sympathetic hearing to my open source advocacy and
> many civil servants who haven't. In fact, of two civil servants I met
> who *were* sympathetic, one is in the process of retiring and one has
> gone to work for an open source company.
Well that's encouraging but there seems to be no general, wider debate
about the issues involved in what IMO is a fairly crucial area for the
development of the country at large. Is there a parliamentary
committee looking at the use of software in the public sector? I don't
think so and if so how many MPs are there in parliament with a BSc
CompSci who can make sense of the evidence presented? At a guess not
many if any at all, most of them are career politicians without any
useful knowledge at all.
Say what you like about the lords but at least they had/have members
who have some expertise outside of politics.
How are the mainstream press debating this issue? They're not. They're
happy filling their papers with opinion pieces telling us what a
fascist Le Pen is....well I don't care what they think, I want some
facts to make up my own mind and I'd much rather they discussed
something that really matters then some old Frog who hasn't got a hope
of hell of getting into power.
BTW, why is Le Pen a fascist for wanting to stop immigration yet our
own government isn't for incarcerating asylum seekers and the
American's aren't despite imprisoning 100s of people without trial?
Answers on a postcard please.
> >I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest
> >concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues
> >with the ability the Peruvian congressman has.
> >
> *I* am aware of people in our parliament have the remotest concept
> of these issues. This is because I have exercised my democratic
> right and written to them directly.
Who are these people and why are they so seemingly reluctant to stick
their heads above the parapet and make a song and dance about it?
> >Probably because 90% of
> >our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
> >
> There *are* stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt politicians in Britain.
> They are a minority and it's our job to vote them out. If we don't
> take our chances to do so then we deserve everything we get.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you and say that IMO unfortunately
they are a majority. I agree with your comments about us getting what
we deserve but political debate has been demeaned by the current lot
and nobody with any real talent wants to go into politics. And even if
you have talent and are prepared to listen to both sides of an
argument without towing a party line, then your impartiality
effectively disqualifies you from entering politics.
>
> >>What particularly tickled me was that this South American
> >>politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open
> >>requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from
> >>British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that
> >>public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational
> >>corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians
> >who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as
> >possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying
> >that, what exactly are you saying?
> >
> I'm saying that our politicians, who are elected for their *partiality*,
> have, in my direct and documented experience, been more impartial over
> the issues referred to in this letter than our civil servants who have
> been employed for their *IMpartiality*.
But politicians shouldn't be elected for their partiality, they should
be elected on merit, yet it doesn't happen because of the currently
flawed political process. The impartial civil servants are told how to
go about being impartial by their partial masters & end up being
anything but impartial.
> I am also saying that there are A) a lot of British MPs who work hard
> and are good at their jobs and that B) there are millions of Britons who
> can't be bothered to put an 'X' on a piece of paper. That there are MPs
> who don't work hard and aren't good at their jobs might have something
> to do with the millions of people who don't care enough to do something
> about it.
Most people feel totally disenfranchised just like Gary and I do. We
need a violent revolution; the politicians are too comfortable,
complacent and happy with the currently dismal status quo. You saying
that by using our `democratic right' by voting for some other bunch of
sleazeballs is going to make any difference is just not the case IMO
and hasn't been for the past 50 yrs.
Sorry for going OT but IMO the political landscape has to change before
free software is taken up to any significant degree.
--
Frank
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Boroughbridge.
Tel: 01423 323019
---------
PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/
BAD CRAZINESS, MAN!!!
>
> Frank Shute wrote:
>
> >On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
> >
> >
> >>(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians
> >>are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the
> >>World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these
> >>attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people
> >>who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the
> >>British population at the last count.)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people,
> >why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source
> >software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money &
> >confidentiality?
> >
> I have dealt with at least two UK politicians who have given an
> intelligent, fair and sympathetic hearing to my open source advocacy and
> many civil servants who haven't. In fact, of two civil servants I met
> who *were* sympathetic, one is in the process of retiring and one has
> gone to work for an open source company.
Well that's encouraging but there seems to be no general, wider debate
about the issues involved in what IMO is a fairly crucial area for the
development of the country at large. Is there a parliamentary
committee looking at the use of software in the public sector? I don't
think so and if so how many MPs are there in parliament with a BSc
CompSci who can make sense of the evidence presented? At a guess not
many if any at all, most of them are career politicians without any
useful knowledge at all.
Say what you like about the lords but at least they had/have members
who have some expertise outside of politics.
How are the mainstream press debating this issue? They're not. They're
happy filling their papers with opinion pieces telling us what a
fascist Le Pen is....well I don't care what they think, I want some
facts to make up my own mind and I'd much rather they discussed
something that really matters then some old Frog who hasn't got a hope
of hell of getting into power.
BTW, why is Le Pen a fascist for wanting to stop immigration yet our
own government isn't for incarcerating asylum seekers and the
American's aren't despite imprisoning 100s of people without trial?
Answers on a postcard please.
> >I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest
> >concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues
> >with the ability the Peruvian congressman has.
> >
> *I* am aware of people in our parliament have the remotest concept
> of these issues. This is because I have exercised my democratic
> right and written to them directly.
Who are these people and why are they so seemingly reluctant to stick
their heads above the parapet and make a song and dance about it?
> >Probably because 90% of
> >our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
> >
> There *are* stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt politicians in Britain.
> They are a minority and it's our job to vote them out. If we don't
> take our chances to do so then we deserve everything we get.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you and say that IMO unfortunately
they are a majority. I agree with your comments about us getting what
we deserve but political debate has been demeaned by the current lot
and nobody with any real talent wants to go into politics. And even if
you have talent and are prepared to listen to both sides of an
argument without towing a party line, then your impartiality
effectively disqualifies you from entering politics.
>
> >>What particularly tickled me was that this South American
> >>politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open
> >>requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from
> >>British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that
> >>public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational
> >>corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians
> >who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as
> >possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying
> >that, what exactly are you saying?
> >
> I'm saying that our politicians, who are elected for their *partiality*,
> have, in my direct and documented experience, been more impartial over
> the issues referred to in this letter than our civil servants who have
> been employed for their *IMpartiality*.
But politicians shouldn't be elected for their partiality, they should
be elected on merit, yet it doesn't happen because of the currently
flawed political process. The impartial civil servants are told how to
go about being impartial by their partial masters & end up being
anything but impartial.
> I am also saying that there are A) a lot of British MPs who work hard
> and are good at their jobs and that B) there are millions of Britons who
> can't be bothered to put an 'X' on a piece of paper. That there are MPs
> who don't work hard and aren't good at their jobs might have something
> to do with the millions of people who don't care enough to do something
> about it.
Most people feel totally disenfranchised just like Gary and I do. We
need a violent revolution; the politicians are too comfortable,
complacent and happy with the currently dismal status quo. You saying
that by using our `democratic right' by voting for some other bunch of
sleazeballs is going to make any difference is just not the case IMO
and hasn't been for the past 50 yrs.
Sorry for going OT but IMO the political landscape has to change before
free software is taken up to any significant degree.
--
Frank
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Boroughbridge.
Tel: 01423 323019
---------
PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/
BAD CRAZINESS, MAN!!!
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