Frank, the point I was making in a very deliberately unsubtle way was the one you rose to: your original and extensive reply dissed the opposition so hard in in such personal terms that it lost its effectiveness. Now, my reply was to one specific point regarding interface design, which was why I quoted you. The interface is extremely relevant. Look at http://www.iarchitect.com/mshame.htm Regarding what should be taught in schools, I would certainly not teach C or C++ as a first language, points I made in another posting. Young kids want fast results otherwise they lose interest, so I think that at the age of 13 or so, starlogo http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/Projects/starlogo/ is much more accessible that any professional language. [It's a Java applet!] This begs the question of what you teach older pupils. C and C++ allow you to make lots of mistakes. C++ has never really lived up to the object promise IMO. Up until recently I taught Pascal, as a procedural language with good error checking. Now I'm not so sure. I really don't want to head down the C route, but I do want something with more 'teeth' than Logo. The point being that this is education not training. I don't expect my students to step straight into jobs with software companies. I do want them to have a basic understanding of program structures, interfaces and algorithms which they can build on wherever they go next. Any employer who offers a job solely on programming expertise picked up at school is asking for trouble! [although I can think of a couple of particular cases straight off which counter that argument]
From that perspective VB is no better or worse than many other languages. Not that I actually use it myself. But I have pupils who do....
-----Original Message----- From: 'Frank Shute' [mailto:frank@esperance-linux.co.uk] Sent: 03 February 2002 23:40 To: Grainge, Derek Cc: Schools List Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Plans for a Linux distro
On Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 02:40:42PM -0000, Grainge, Derek wrote:
What the program looks like is a total irrelevance,
Let's reply in the same vein as your mail, Frank. Bollocks!
I gave my reasons for thinking it was bollocks. Now how about you having the courtesy to explain why my arguments are bollocks whilst seemingly to agree with most of them?
You might agree or disagree with what's required at school,
but there's no
need to piss on the argument. Especially when you're wrong.
C++ should be taught at school should it? Wrong am I?
Perhaps you should go and lie down for a while. You're obviously getting a little bit over-excited.
--
Frank
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