Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-edu (180 mails)
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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
- From: "Coulton,G" <coultogi01@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:18:12 +0000 (UTC)
- Message-id: <E14F02E272F3D3119A4300508B958720264952@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Morning Everyone :)
I have worked in schools for over two and a half years and the ICT
Co-ordinator has for twenty five years. Neither of use have seen ANY
publication on licensing ETC.
Does the DfES produce one? Is it a LEA thing? Who is in charge of letting
schools know about licensing?
TIA
Gary Coulton
Corpus Christi Catholic High School
Neville Road,
LEEDS. UK
LS9 0TT
Tel: +44 113 248 2666
Fax: +44 113 235 0758
Email: coultogi01@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Website: www.cchsleeds.demon.co.uk
"Corpus Christi Catholic High School, has
Technology College Status, and specialises
in ICT, Maths, Science and Design Technology"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Malcolm Herbert [mailto:mherbert@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 13 July 2001 17:00
> To: "Schools List
> <suse-linux-uk-schools@xxxxxxxx>"@lacrosse.corp.redhat.com
> Cc: Coulton,G; 'Mark Evans'; 'Simon Wood'; Schools List
> Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
>
>
> hi all
>
> adding to the debate, here is the synopsis of a BESA report
> on illegal
> software use carried out in 1999 (and repeated last year), on
> the Becta web
> site. Wonder who the sponsors of the report were ?
>
> Malcolm
>
>
> Half of schools found licensing overly complex. The main
> problems were
> reported as being the variety of different licence agreements
> and confusing
> language in documentation.
>
> Many teachers were unsure whether and under what
> circumstances copying of
> software was allowed. Half of teachers believed that it was
> acceptable to copy
> software for classroom use. Copying for home use or copying
> for a colleague
> was thought to be acceptable by about a fifth of teachers.
> Ten per cent of
> teachers thought it acceptable to lend colleagues software
> when not in use by
> the licence holder.
>
> Half of primary schools and a quarter of secondary schools
> were unaware of the
> penalties they might incur for use of unlicensed software.
> Secondary schools
> were concerned about others using unlicensed software because
> they felt that
> the outcome would be more expensive software products.
> Schools were unsure how
> easy or difficult it might be to identify schools using
> unlicensed software,
> but the majority thought it might be difficult.
>
> Just under half of ICT co-ordinators reported that they would
> not know who to
> ask for advice. Of the others, most said that they would turn
> to local
> authority ICT centres and advisers. Organisations such as the
> Federation
> Against Software Theft (FAST) or the British Educational Suppliers
> Association (BESA) are unlikely to be consulted.
>
> Only a small minority of schools across the UK has ever
> discussed licensing
> at governors? meetings, and few schools indicated that they
> had plans to do
> so.
>
> The majority of schools thought it would be illegal for
> software distributors
> to sell unlicensed software. Schools indicated concern that
> their supplier
> might pass on unlicensed software. Generally, software
> distributors and
> producers were not felt to provide adequate information.
>
> A third of primary schools and half of secondary schools had
> procedures in
> place to ensure that software is licensed to the
> manufacturer?s requirements.
>
>
>
> On Thursday 12 July 2001 14:59, Mark Evans wrote:
> > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Coulton,G wrote:
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36
> > > > > To: Coulton,G
> > > > > Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in
> schools/piracy
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Simon,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux
> > > > >
> > > > > a while back. The
> > > > >
> > > > > > reason we didn't respond is because :-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most
> > > > >
> > > > > High Schools
> > > > >
> > > > > > netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have
> > > > >
> > > > > 123 computers to
> > > > >
> > > > > > set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32
> > > > >
> > > > > machines, interactive
> > > > >
> > > > > > whiteboards and another computer room all before
> > > > >
> > > > > September). To change or
> > > > >
> > > > > > look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical
> > > > >
> > > > > as Linux is a big
> > > > >
> > > > > > step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll
> > > > >
> > > > > agree - adding
> > > > >
> > > > > > an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Since when is a BDC a workstation?
> > > >
> > > > I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about
> adding a Linux Server
> > > > as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server
> > >
> > > snip
> > >
> > > I had to add my mite here as I don't agree at all. Your
> argument assumes
> > > you are moving from NT and learning Linux. I could set up
> a Linux server
> > > much quicker. It is only eXTREMELY time consuming if you
> start from
> > > knowing nothing about it. I would have the same problem
> in reverse if I
> >
> > Possibly it's more time consuming for someone knowing only
> NT, which would
> > only apply to relative newcomers anyway...
> >
> > > ever succumbed to the suggestions I get to install NT - I
> refuse to do it
> >
> > I actually have exactly this problem. In that I cannot get a W2K to
> > reliably work as a replacement for our Netware 3.12 server in order
> > to operate SIMS. But the new SQL stuff isn't supported running on
> > a proper SQL server.
> >
> > Interestingly it's only the 95 workstations which have a problem
> > communicating with this server, smbclient has no problem
> recognising it.
> >
> > Both Microsoft and the LEA people have little idea why it shouldn't
> > work.
> >
> > > as I don't have the time to spare to learn how to do it.
> If I could see
> > > *any* technological advantage in doing so I would have to
> consider it
> > > seriously. I won't go into the rest of the arguments
> pro/con which we
> > > keep rehashing here. I do know that if I ever do get
> forced into getting
> > > involved in NT/W2k I will miss the openness and freedom
> of information I
> > > get using Open Source.
> >
> > Virtually every time I have to deal with a piece of Windows software
> > (especially if it's from Microsoft) I am left feeling as
> though I would
> > be better off headbutting a wall. (The only notable
> exceptions have been
> > Techsoft and Avco Systems.)
>
> --
> ------------------------------------
> Malcolm Herbert
> Red Hat Europe
> t:+44 1483 734955 m:+44 7720 079845
> ------------------------------------
>
I have worked in schools for over two and a half years and the ICT
Co-ordinator has for twenty five years. Neither of use have seen ANY
publication on licensing ETC.
Does the DfES produce one? Is it a LEA thing? Who is in charge of letting
schools know about licensing?
TIA
Gary Coulton
Corpus Christi Catholic High School
Neville Road,
LEEDS. UK
LS9 0TT
Tel: +44 113 248 2666
Fax: +44 113 235 0758
Email: coultogi01@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Website: www.cchsleeds.demon.co.uk
"Corpus Christi Catholic High School, has
Technology College Status, and specialises
in ICT, Maths, Science and Design Technology"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Malcolm Herbert [mailto:mherbert@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 13 July 2001 17:00
> To: "Schools List
> <suse-linux-uk-schools@xxxxxxxx>"@lacrosse.corp.redhat.com
> Cc: Coulton,G; 'Mark Evans'; 'Simon Wood'; Schools List
> Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
>
>
> hi all
>
> adding to the debate, here is the synopsis of a BESA report
> on illegal
> software use carried out in 1999 (and repeated last year), on
> the Becta web
> site. Wonder who the sponsors of the report were ?
>
> Malcolm
>
>
> Half of schools found licensing overly complex. The main
> problems were
> reported as being the variety of different licence agreements
> and confusing
> language in documentation.
>
> Many teachers were unsure whether and under what
> circumstances copying of
> software was allowed. Half of teachers believed that it was
> acceptable to copy
> software for classroom use. Copying for home use or copying
> for a colleague
> was thought to be acceptable by about a fifth of teachers.
> Ten per cent of
> teachers thought it acceptable to lend colleagues software
> when not in use by
> the licence holder.
>
> Half of primary schools and a quarter of secondary schools
> were unaware of the
> penalties they might incur for use of unlicensed software.
> Secondary schools
> were concerned about others using unlicensed software because
> they felt that
> the outcome would be more expensive software products.
> Schools were unsure how
> easy or difficult it might be to identify schools using
> unlicensed software,
> but the majority thought it might be difficult.
>
> Just under half of ICT co-ordinators reported that they would
> not know who to
> ask for advice. Of the others, most said that they would turn
> to local
> authority ICT centres and advisers. Organisations such as the
> Federation
> Against Software Theft (FAST) or the British Educational Suppliers
> Association (BESA) are unlikely to be consulted.
>
> Only a small minority of schools across the UK has ever
> discussed licensing
> at governors? meetings, and few schools indicated that they
> had plans to do
> so.
>
> The majority of schools thought it would be illegal for
> software distributors
> to sell unlicensed software. Schools indicated concern that
> their supplier
> might pass on unlicensed software. Generally, software
> distributors and
> producers were not felt to provide adequate information.
>
> A third of primary schools and half of secondary schools had
> procedures in
> place to ensure that software is licensed to the
> manufacturer?s requirements.
>
>
>
> On Thursday 12 July 2001 14:59, Mark Evans wrote:
> > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Coulton,G wrote:
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36
> > > > > To: Coulton,G
> > > > > Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in
> schools/piracy
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Simon,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux
> > > > >
> > > > > a while back. The
> > > > >
> > > > > > reason we didn't respond is because :-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most
> > > > >
> > > > > High Schools
> > > > >
> > > > > > netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have
> > > > >
> > > > > 123 computers to
> > > > >
> > > > > > set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32
> > > > >
> > > > > machines, interactive
> > > > >
> > > > > > whiteboards and another computer room all before
> > > > >
> > > > > September). To change or
> > > > >
> > > > > > look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical
> > > > >
> > > > > as Linux is a big
> > > > >
> > > > > > step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll
> > > > >
> > > > > agree - adding
> > > > >
> > > > > > an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Since when is a BDC a workstation?
> > > >
> > > > I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about
> adding a Linux Server
> > > > as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server
> > >
> > > snip
> > >
> > > I had to add my mite here as I don't agree at all. Your
> argument assumes
> > > you are moving from NT and learning Linux. I could set up
> a Linux server
> > > much quicker. It is only eXTREMELY time consuming if you
> start from
> > > knowing nothing about it. I would have the same problem
> in reverse if I
> >
> > Possibly it's more time consuming for someone knowing only
> NT, which would
> > only apply to relative newcomers anyway...
> >
> > > ever succumbed to the suggestions I get to install NT - I
> refuse to do it
> >
> > I actually have exactly this problem. In that I cannot get a W2K to
> > reliably work as a replacement for our Netware 3.12 server in order
> > to operate SIMS. But the new SQL stuff isn't supported running on
> > a proper SQL server.
> >
> > Interestingly it's only the 95 workstations which have a problem
> > communicating with this server, smbclient has no problem
> recognising it.
> >
> > Both Microsoft and the LEA people have little idea why it shouldn't
> > work.
> >
> > > as I don't have the time to spare to learn how to do it.
> If I could see
> > > *any* technological advantage in doing so I would have to
> consider it
> > > seriously. I won't go into the rest of the arguments
> pro/con which we
> > > keep rehashing here. I do know that if I ever do get
> forced into getting
> > > involved in NT/W2k I will miss the openness and freedom
> of information I
> > > get using Open Source.
> >
> > Virtually every time I have to deal with a piece of Windows software
> > (especially if it's from Microsoft) I am left feeling as
> though I would
> > be better off headbutting a wall. (The only notable
> exceptions have been
> > Techsoft and Avco Systems.)
>
> --
> ------------------------------------
> Malcolm Herbert
> Red Hat Europe
> t:+44 1483 734955 m:+44 7720 079845
> ------------------------------------
>
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