Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-buildservice (227 mails)

< Previous Next >
Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Reworking the software search, part II
  • From: Martin Seidler <pistazienfresser@xxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:52:36 +0100
  • Message-id: <4F685364.9010300@gmx.de>
Am 19.03.2012 12:13, schrieb Thomas Schmidt:
On 18.03.2012 15:45, Martin Seidler wrote:
Am 18.03.2012 00:37, schrieb Thomas Schmidt:
On 16.03.2012 20:44, Martin Seidler wrote:
[...]
>>>>>>> * Thomas Schmidt<tom@xxxxxxxxxxxx> [03-12-12 11:44]:
>>>>>>>> Please check the new search at:
[1]
>>>>>>>> http://software.opensuse.org/search/find
>>>>>>>> and see an example app page here:
>>>>>>>> http://software.opensuse.org/package/kopete
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please let me know what you think of the current state.
[...]
I.1)

In addition to that you do not see the file names.

So it will be easier for the packages that are already easy to
search with the YaST Software Manager.

But for the cases software search would be a help now - an other
solution would be needed.

Example (maybe I am wrong?):

Kernel module r8168
(I think it has to be for the right kernel version number, kernel
flavor and openSUSE version)

Please make a try to find a fitting one (and especially if there is
one) with

http://software.opensuse.org/search/searchresult?q=r8168
against
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=r8168&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1

for the case on

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2012-03/msg00765.html
uname -a
Linux linux-x9yw 3.1.9-1.4-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jan 27 08:55:10
UTC 2012 (efb5ff4) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

The new search may seem easier for me at the beginning as I could
better choose the modules fitting to a kernel flavor. But if you do not
look at the linked URL I will not be able to see that the
kernel version number does not fit.

[...]
2)
But as I am not able to see the name of the packages in the search
results (unless I use the trick with the URL of the Link) it is still
pretty
difficult to find a package for the fitting kernel version number like
3.1.9-1.4

I would like to see the information like the name of the file
r8168-kmp-desktop-8.027.00_k*3.1.0_1.2-7.1*.x86_64.rpm

without going the way:

http://software.opensuse.org/package/r8168-kmp-desktop?search_term=r8168
(klick, klick, klick, klick, ...)
->
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?project=home:TheTiger&package=r8168

->
https://build.opensuse.org/package/binaries?package=r8168&project=home%3ATheTiger&repository=openSUSE_12.1

->
"...
r8168-kmp-desktop-8.027.00_k3.1.0_1.2-7.1.x86_64.rpm
...
"


Maybe I am not learned enough to understand that kernel module things
and I could use kernel modules build for a 3.1.0_1.2-7.1 openSUSE kernel
version also for a kernel with a 3.1.9-1.4 version number but I
thought things like that would be important.

I can't follow you.
Seems so.
Apart from reading clicking on the blue things might help.
They are called links and may lead to additional information... ;)
You should not need to check any version numbering,
just click on the one-click-install
link for your distribution and the package management will resolve the
dependencies and install your package.
Nether do I or did I want to install a Kernel module r8168 or any package at all in the linked case.

For your case Tumbleweed,
Nether the user who had asked for help (and is now probably just using an other distro or no linux based system at all) had been using Tumbleweed nor do I,
> you probably have installed kernel 3.2.10 from
the Tumbleweed repo.
Searching for r8168-kmp-desktop will give you the package
r8168-kmp-desktop-8.024.00_k3.0.7_45
from the drivers:nic repository.
Trying to follow you new introduced case
I will not see name of the file
but
"8.024.00_k3.0.7_45".
Something like that would suffice in my point of view.

In the real case Ralph DeWitt was looking for help with openSUSE 12.1. So I do the described search once again today with the new search[1]:

a) I go to
http://software.opensuse.org/search/find

b) I enter "r8168"
->
http://software.opensuse.org/search/searchresult?q=r8168&search_devel=false&search_unsupported=false&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1
"No packages found matching your search.
You could try to extend your search to unsupported packages or search for another base distribution (currently openSUSE:12.1)."[2]

c) I click on the screw-wrench beneath the search button

d) I click on "[x] Show unsupported packages"

d') I click on the search button again to get a URL I can post here
->
http://software.opensuse.org/search/searchresult?q=r8168&search_devel=false&search_unsupported=false&search_unsupported=true&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1 shows to me:
"r8168

Kernel module for RealTek RTL8111/8168 PCI-Express NICs

Sub-packages: kmp-default kmp-desktop kmp-pae kmp-xen
"

e) I click on "kmp-desktop" (linked with:http://software.opensuse.org/package/r8168-kmp-desktop?search_term=r8168 )
->
http://software.opensuse.org/package/r8168-kmp-desktop?search_term=r8168
"r8168-kmp-desktop
Kernel module for RealTek RTL8111/8168 PCI-Express NICs

Realtek r8168 kernel module for RealTek RTL8111/8168, Gigabit Ethernet controllers with PCI-Express interface.

openSUSE Factory
Show unsupported packages
openSUSE 12.1
Show unsupported packages
openSUSE 11.4
openSUSE Tumbleweed
Show more packages for unsupported distributions"

f) I click on the second "Show unsupported packages" - the one under "openSUSE 12.1"
(linked with:
http://software.opensuse.org/package/r8168-kmp-desktop?search_term=r8168# )
-> A window pops up showing:
"Warning

Please be aware that the following packages are from unofficial repositories. That means they are not reviewed by openSUSE and may contain unstable or experimental software.

[ ] Don't show this warning the next time

[Continue]
"

g) I click on "[Continue]"
-> a new line appears with
" home:TheTiger
8.027.00_k3.1.0_1...
32 Bit
64 Bit
1 Click Install"[3]

I.2)
In the 'oLd search'[1] I see the file-names if I search for "r8168-kmp-desktop"
->
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=r8168-kmp-desktop&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en
"[...]
r8168-kmp-desktop
drivers:nic/openSUSE_Tumbleweed
Realtek r8168 kernel module for RealTek RTL8111/8168, Gigabit Ethernet controllers with PCI-Express interface.
1-Click Install
Manual Package Download
Go to OBS Project
i586 r8168-kmp-desktop-8.024.00_k3.0.7_45-1.13.i586.rpm
x86_64 r8168-kmp-desktop-8.024.00_k3.0.7_45-1.13.x86_64.rpm
[...]"

Instead of "8.027.00_k3.1.0_1..." I would like to see something not so much shortened like
"8.027.00_k3.1.0_1.2-7.1" or again the filenames for community and home repositories.

II.
I do still not know why the new search leads me to a result from "home:TheTiger" and
"[...]
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/TheTiger/openSUSE_12.1/x86_64/r8168-kmp-desktop-8.027.00_k3.1.0_1.2-7.1.x86_64.rpm
and with 12.1 the URL of the repository "
but
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=r8168-kmp-desktop&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en
gives me still something from "drivers:nic/openSUSE_Tumbleweed" and
" http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/drivers:/nic/openSUSE_Tumbleweed ".


III.
Which is obviously build for an older
Kernel version, because it fails
to build in the drivers:nic obs project since some time.
If this information would be displayed on the output for results in community and home repositories it might be a bit more in the direction of 'obvious'....
So I think it
won't be installable for you and the
package management will detect this. Or am I wrong here?
I have no Tumbleweed installation so I am not able to test your new introduced case. But if you do point me a case for a 12.1 installation I will try if the package management will prevent me from ruining my system or not.

But do you think that trying to install each package that might work and hoping for the package management to give more information in the process of installing is
an good alternative to supplying more information like in the output old search?

IV.

We are in the area of unsupported packages here where the page shows a
clear warning that there are risks.
We are in a area where nether zypper nor YaST nor YaST2>Software Management nor the wiki will give any information before adding even more repositories to the package management of the installed system.

Is it necessary to reduce the information of the output in this area in order to make http://software.opensuse.org/ better for a task that could be done with zypper or YaST or YaST2>Software Management or the wiki like searching for packages in the Main and Update repositories of your recently installed version of openSUSE?


3)
In my view it would make sense to switch back to the old/current
layout when the results from the sub-project repositories are shown
(or at
least for the really private home repositories).

In addition to more information about the packages and the package
builders this would be a fitting 'warning' - more than (only) that pop-up
window.

How should that work to include the old layout search results in the new
application page?
If this is a new search[1] engine:
someone might add more fields in the 'area' where someone has explicitly searched for results in the community and home repositories.
If this is only a new layout[1] for entering the search terms and displaying the results of the already existing search engine:
it might be possible just to use the old layout from the stage on when someone has clicked on that new buttons
to explicitly search for results in the community and home repositories.

My suspicion is that in general often people do not click on links to get more information but (if ad all) only read the information given on the current screen (compare above under I.1)) - if at all.

But if both is not technical possible/easy enough to realize:
It might be that
reducing the information in the area where it would make sense to display it
would be justified by
the possible decrease of cases when people have used the software search for a task that could be done easily with other tools and by doing so have added ca. 20 new repositories to their system and messed up everything.

Could you create graphic that shows what you mean?
For example an layout like on
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=r8168-kmp-desktop&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en
I do not know what you want to have shown (more) graphically.

But if a layout with less information is the price to pay for
getting results for openSUSE 12.1 and not openSUSE Tumbleweed
if someone searches for packages for openSUSE 12.1
than this improvement will probably be even worth the lost of information in the new display of the results.

Regards
Martin

[1]
Is the 'thing' on http://software.opensuse.org/search/find
a new search engine/an other search engine
( https://trello.com/card/fork-the-ubuntu-software-center-and-make-it-a-project-with-the-appstream-folks/4f156e1c9ce0824a2e1b8831/5 makes me suspect this)
or
only a new layout/presentation of the output of the old search engine?

[2]
"Unsupported" is not a term with a clear meaning - if the packages from the community and home repositories are "unsupported"
than the conclusion is possible and in my view likely to make (as a argumentum e contrario) that the packages from the other repositories are supported. But who wants to give, grant or guaranty any support to that packages and in what way and extent?
Do for example the packages from the Evergreen repositories really need more more warnings than the packages from the Tumbleweed repositories?
I think that here was made a simplifiation of not simple things and this will probably lead to more confusion.

[3]
If I recall my last try to use that "new search"[1] I was only seeing something like ""8.027.00 ..." instead of the full filenames. If so there might be an improvement of the output or the layout.


--
openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser
Martin Seidler
KIRCHSTR. 11, 65843 SULZBACH (TAUNUS)
FON (priv.): +49 6196 40 20 283 Ø
FON (comm.): +49 6196 59 236 23 Ø
FAX: +49 6196 59 236 24 Ø
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx

< Previous Next >
Follow Ups