Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-buildservice (50 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-buildservice] open source development model
  • From: Klaas Freitag <freitag@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:10 +0100
  • Message-id: <200603090915.11133.freitag@xxxxxxx>
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 21:44, Robert Schiele wrote:

Hi Robert,

> I will add mls to cc to allow him to defend himself if he feels that this is
> needed. But notice this is not about him but about a general problem of the
> development model. He is just involved in one instance of the problem.
Yes, there is nothing that mls is to blame for or something.
>
> On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 08:00:01PM +0100, Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 07:23:01PM +0100, Robert Schiele wrote:
> > > Actually I don't care whether it is a "shadow" svn or a "shadow"
> > > we-don't-use-revision-control-internally-at-all tool. Obviously software
> > > (like the build script) is already deployed to the build server in a version
> > > that is not in the public repository (because there is _no_ version of the
> > > build script in the repository but the server does actually build packages
> > > already).
> >
> > This is the backend part I mentioned.
>
> I know but still want to make the point there because this is exactly the
> place where one instance of the problem currently shows up.
>
> > No, I don't. We went public with a pre-pre-alpha, far from feature
> > complete, incomplete version to give people the possibility to look at
> > the code as early as possible. I understand your frustration that this
> > is not going faster, but I can't change it now. We're working on the
> > problem.
Well, it is developing and the developing should really be open, I can
fully understand Robert. But the good news here is: It is already partly.
All the API and webclient are in external svn at
http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/svn/svnbrowse.php?repname=opensuse
I know and agree that partly is not enough, but it is more than nothing.

>
> The question is now: Do you want external developers in the openSUSE project
> or not? If you don't want them then you could just state that and I will see
> that I did completely misunderstand the intention of the openSUSE project up
> to now.
No, you understood it completely right.
>
> But if you want to attract external developers a change in the development
> model should happen.
Yes, and we are really working on that. We are at Novell and Novell is on it's
way to become the largest and coolest open source company out there. But: We
are still on the way. At Novell (maybe same for SUSE and many other companies ;)
you find people who have not _yet_ fully understood what benefits come out of
a real open development model, especially for openSUSE. And switching a 'classic'
software company to an open source company is a big task. So we have many
discussions and explain and explain. That takes time. And during this time
we as developers here at SUSE are not in the position to release code that
might be subject of these discussions. I hope you understand that.

BUT: Believe us that we are really doing everything to get the stuff really
open! We as open source developers really want you to get into that. We personally
do not want to be another "pseudo open" company and we do not want to have a
"pseudo open source" project.

And I understand your frustration completely. And I like to thank you that you
take the time to write that down and do not go away silently.

>
> Please don't do the same your colleagues did while developing Xgl. I am sure
> they are attracting now some developers from outside Novell because Xgl is a
> shiny thing but they could have more if they did develop it in an open way
> from the very beginning.
Yes.

Thanks Robert,

Klaas
>
-> webclient & api developer.

--
Klaas Freitag
Novell - SUSE R&D - Internal Tools

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