[yast-devel] nomodeset abuses new users and their supporters
Time and time again, NVidia gfx and Optimus users are unable to install without appending nomodeset to the installer's cmdline. cf. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822769 resolved feature No mention is made in that bug if a feature request was ever filed. The bug request was to make appending nomodeset easier for users. This trouble with installation is routinely followed by a new support request, to resolve problems either with low resolution video modes, or black screens, or both. e.g. https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/533157-How-change-screen-resoluti... More often than not, resolving this failure means the helpers must explain that nomodeset needs to be removed from Grub configuration, and how to go about it, which means temporarily at the Grub screen, and ultimately via /etc/default/grub and grub2-mkconfig. IMO it would be much a better user and support experience, and ultimately better for openSUSE's reputation, that when the Yast installer finds nomodeset has been used to install that it *not* be preserved in /etc/default/grub. Agree? If yes, file this request where, B.O.O., or F.O.O? If not agree, why not? OT but related: is anything being done or planned to make it less likely that nomodeset is necessary for a successful installation for Optimus and NVidia users? -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
V Tue, 25 Sep 2018 16:31:41 -0400
Felix Miata
Time and time again, NVidia gfx and Optimus users are unable to install without appending nomodeset to the installer's cmdline. cf. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822769 resolved feature No mention is made in that bug if a feature request was ever filed. The bug request was to make appending nomodeset easier for users.
This trouble with installation is routinely followed by a new support request, to resolve problems either with low resolution video modes, or black screens, or both. e.g. https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/533157-How-change-screen-resoluti...
More often than not, resolving this failure means the helpers must explain that nomodeset needs to be removed from Grub configuration, and how to go about it, which means temporarily at the Grub screen, and ultimately via /etc/default/grub and grub2-mkconfig.
IMO it would be much a better user and support experience, and ultimately better for openSUSE's reputation, that when the Yast installer finds nomodeset has been used to install that it *not* be preserved in /etc/default/grub.
Agree? If yes, file this request where, B.O.O., or F.O.O?
If not agree, why not?
OT but related: is anything being done or planned to make it less likely that nomodeset is necessary for a successful installation for Optimus and NVidia users?
Hi Felix, this should already work. If user select for installation nomodeset, then bootloader proposal should use it. Do you have logs from installation where it does not work? I can check it why it does not work. Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Josef Reidinger composed on 2018-09-26 10:33 (UTC+0200):
Tue, 25 Sep 2018 16:31:41 -0400 Felix Miata composed:
Time and time again, NVidia gfx and Optimus users are unable to install without appending nomodeset to the installer's cmdline. cf. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822769 resolved feature No mention is made in that bug if a feature request was ever filed. The bug request was to make appending nomodeset easier for users.
This trouble with installation is routinely followed by a new support request, to resolve problems either with low resolution video modes, or black screens, or both. e.g. https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/533157-How-change-screen-resoluti...
More often than not, resolving this failure means the helpers must explain that nomodeset needs to be removed from Grub configuration, and how to go about it, which means temporarily at the Grub screen, and ultimately via /etc/default/grub and grub2-mkconfig.
IMO it would be much a better user and support experience, and ultimately better for openSUSE's reputation, that when the Yast installer finds nomodeset has been used to install that it *not* be preserved in /etc/default/grub.
Agree? If yes, file this request where, B.O.O., or F.O.O?
If not agree, why not?
OT but related: is anything being done or planned to make it less likely that nomodeset is necessary for a successful installation for Optimus and NVidia users?
Hi Felix, this should already work. If user select for installation nomodeset, then bootloader proposal should use it. Do you have logs from installation where it does not work? I can check it why it does not work.
You seem to misunderstand my proposition. When nomodeset is appended to installation cmdline because of having previously attempted installation without nomodeset and having any sort of consequent video failure with the original installation, the subsequent installation attempt /with/ nomodeset appended should NOT include nomodeset in the bootloader proposal, which is as you say what it currently does: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/Leap/y2l-ab250s150test-wd320.tgz Experts may know to edit the proposal. Others (most users) don't. As a consequence of nomodeset included in the installed bootloader configuration, their video is typically limited to either a useless black screen, and/or 1024x768 or 800x600, in any case, not the display's preferred mode that with FOSS drivers virtually always requires KMS to acquire, and for GDM or SDDM to run. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 07:03:11 -0400
Felix Miata
Josef Reidinger composed on 2018-09-26 10:33 (UTC+0200):
Tue, 25 Sep 2018 16:31:41 -0400 Felix Miata composed:
Time and time again, NVidia gfx and Optimus users are unable to install without appending nomodeset to the installer's cmdline. cf. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=822769 resolved feature No mention is made in that bug if a feature request was ever filed. The bug request was to make appending nomodeset easier for users.
This trouble with installation is routinely followed by a new support request, to resolve problems either with low resolution video modes, or black screens, or both. e.g. https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/533157-How-change-screen-resoluti...
More often than not, resolving this failure means the helpers must explain that nomodeset needs to be removed from Grub configuration, and how to go about it, which means temporarily at the Grub screen, and ultimately via /etc/default/grub and grub2-mkconfig.
IMO it would be much a better user and support experience, and ultimately better for openSUSE's reputation, that when the Yast installer finds nomodeset has been used to install that it *not* be preserved in /etc/default/grub.
Agree? If yes, file this request where, B.O.O., or F.O.O?
If not agree, why not?
OT but related: is anything being done or planned to make it less likely that nomodeset is necessary for a successful installation for Optimus and NVidia users?
Hi Felix, this should already work. If user select for installation nomodeset, then bootloader proposal should use it. Do you have logs from installation where it does not work? I can check it why it does not work.
You seem to misunderstand my proposition. When nomodeset is appended to installation cmdline because of having previously attempted installation without nomodeset and having any sort of consequent video failure with the original installation, the subsequent installation attempt /with/ nomodeset appended should
NOT
ah, sorry. I overlooked that negative part. Well, currently idea behind copying this options is that if you need special tuning for installation, then it makes sense to also propose it for running system as kernel and other stuff is similar. The main intention is for broken kernel modules or special parameters. About nomodeset I am not so sure about always filtering it out as I am not X server expert. So I prefer if you can open bug report. Then I can ask our x-server and wayland experts what they think about it and if they agreed, then it should be easy to change the behavior. So can you please open bug report with all that description we discussed here?
include nomodeset in the bootloader proposal, which is as you say what it currently does:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/Leap/y2l-ab250s150test-wd320.tgz
Experts may know to edit the proposal. Others (most users) don't. As a consequence of nomodeset included in the installed bootloader configuration, their video is typically limited to either a useless black screen, and/or 1024x768 or 800x600, in any case, not the display's preferred mode that with FOSS drivers virtually always requires KMS to acquire, and for GDM or SDDM to run.
But what happen if user select nvidia proprietary drivers instead of FOSS drivers in installation? Thanks Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Josef Reidinger composed on 2018-09-27 16:15 (UTC+0200):
So can you please open bug report with all that description we discussed here?
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1110041
But what happen if user select nvidia proprietary drivers instead of FOSS drivers in installation?
Those unsupported software installers must follow instructions specific to those drivers to succeed. To add nomodeset or nouveau.modeset=0 will be part of those instructions. YaST shouldn't be presuming users will be adding non-FOSS software to the detriment of those who keep their installations pure and their gratis forum and mailing list supporters. Ideally, something will be done so that nomodeset is uncommonly suggested or required for installation to succeed. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
V Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:18:54 -0400
Felix Miata
Josef Reidinger composed on 2018-09-27 16:15 (UTC+0200):
So can you please open bug report with all that description we discussed here?
Thanks for creating it. Ideally discussion should follow there, so it will be also tracked when we created decision by simple link to bug.
But what happen if user select nvidia proprietary drivers instead of FOSS drivers in installation?
Those unsupported software installers must follow instructions specific to those drivers to succeed. To add nomodeset or nouveau.modeset=0 will be part of those instructions. YaST shouldn't be presuming users will be adding non-FOSS software to the detriment of those who keep their installations pure and their gratis forum and mailing list supporters.
Ideally, something will be done so that nomodeset is uncommonly suggested or required for installation to succeed.
Hmm, so installation really require it? I never face it on any virtual or real hardware installation I did. It looks wrong to me to require nomodeset for installation. So X server won't start there without it? Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 9:50 AM Josef Reidinger
Those unsupported software installers must follow instructions specific to those drivers to succeed. To add nomodeset or nouveau.modeset=0 will be part of those instructions. YaST shouldn't be presuming users will be adding non-FOSS software to the detriment of those who keep their installations pure and their gratis forum and mailing list supporters.
Ideally, something will be done so that nomodeset is uncommonly suggested or required for installation to succeed.
Hmm, so installation really require it? I never face it on any virtual or real hardware installation I did. It looks wrong to me to require nomodeset for installation. So X server won't start there without it?
I am aware of at least one issue with kernel nouveau driver that crashed during installation. There was later update that fixed it, but installation still required blacklisting it. With high probability nomodeset is too big hammer and blacklisting nouveau had been enough. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1101711 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074126 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074068 just several random hits from bugzilla. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Felix Miata -
Josef Reidinger