[opensuse-xfce] Proposal: Change default Thunderbird with Claws Mail
Hello Xfce Geekos, Thunderbird 78 dropped the standard GnuPG in favour of their own implementation of OpenPGP which sparked this discussion here: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/thread/R... I'd like to know what are the general thoughts on this and feedback if openSUSE Xfce should consider switching default to Claws Mail instead. Claws mail is a very powerful client and it's a lot lighter than Thunderbird, making it a good fit for Xfce. Claws mail also supports GnuPG well via a plugin that it's available OOTB. The downside is that compared to Thunderbird, Claws Mail is a bit clunkier to configure and pretty ugly by default, although there are nice themes available. I look forward to hearing from your thoughts. Cheers, -- Maurizio Galli (m4u9) Xfce Team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce
Hi there, On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, 06:45:38 +0100, Maurizio Galli (m4u9) wrote:
Hello Xfce Geekos,
Thunderbird 78 dropped the standard GnuPG in favour of their own implementation of OpenPGP which sparked this discussion here: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/thread/R...
I'd like to know what are the general thoughts on this and feedback if openSUSE Xfce should consider switching default to Claws Mail instead.
Claws mail is a very powerful client and it's a lot lighter than Thunderbird, making it a good fit for Xfce. Claws mail also supports GnuPG well via a plugin that it's available OOTB.
The downside is that compared to Thunderbird, Claws Mail is a bit clunkier to configure and pretty ugly by default, although there are nice themes available.
I looked at it some weeks ago. Everything looked OK to me, but there is a bit BUT! The default format for the mail files/folders is some builtin sort of "mh"; it can deal with "mbox" files, but not for the default account, which means one has to convert/import the files, and/or change the whole structure of a multi-account setup. When I saw that, I decided to stick with thunderbird68 atm. Another thing is, I normally use mutt as my primary e-mail client, but from time to time I need to start thunderbird for some reasons; I spent quite some time to allow them share the same file/mail structure. I'm not so sure if the "mh" thing will work with mutt...
I look forward to hearing from your thoughts.
Completely OK for me, as thunderbird78 is not usable for me.
Cheers,
-- Maurizio Galli (m4u9) Xfce Team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce
HTH, cheers. l8er manfred
Hi, in general I support the switch to Claws Mail. Yet we should keep collecting some more technical feedback like from Manfred. Personally I have no experience with mbox, for example. So I'd like to avoid any trouble for people. Am 16.11.20 um 09:30 schrieb Manfred Hollstein:
I looked at it some weeks ago. Everything looked OK to me, but there is a bit BUT! The default format for the mail files/folders is some builtin sort of "mh"; it can deal with "mbox" files, but not for the default account, which means one has to convert/import the files, and/or change the whole structure of a multi-account setup.
According to their FAQ mbox and Maildir are supported via plugins: https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/General_Information#How_does_Claws_...
When I saw that, I decided to stick with thunderbird68 atm. Another thing is, I normally use mutt as my primary e-mail client, but from time to time I need to start thunderbird for some reasons; I spent quite some time to allow them share the same file/mail structure. I'm not so sure if the "mh" thing will work with mutt...
While I understand your concerns Maurizio's question points to the default client on installation and live ISO (at least that's how I understood it). A pre-selected Claws Mail would not keep you from using Thunderbird. Maybe the initial account setup differs when mbox/maildir plugins are not only installed but also pre-activated. At least that would be worth having a look. Cheers, vinz.
On 16/11/2020 10:35, Vinzenz Vietzke wrote:
Hi,
in general I support the switch to Claws Mail. Yet we should keep collecting some more technical feedback like from Manfred. Personally I have no experience with mbox, for example. So I'd like to avoid any trouble for people.
Am 16.11.20 um 09:30 schrieb Manfred Hollstein:
I looked at it some weeks ago. Everything looked OK to me, but there is a bit BUT! The default format for the mail files/folders is some builtin sort of "mh"; it can deal with "mbox" files, but not for the default account, which means one has to convert/import the files, and/or change the whole structure of a multi-account setup.
According to their FAQ mbox and Maildir are supported via plugins: https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/General_Information#How_does_Claws_...
When I saw that, I decided to stick with thunderbird68 atm. Another thing is, I normally use mutt as my primary e-mail client, but from time to time I need to start thunderbird for some reasons; I spent quite some time to allow them share the same file/mail structure. I'm not so sure if the "mh" thing will work with mutt...
While I understand your concerns Maurizio's question points to the default client on installation and live ISO (at least that's how I understood it). A pre-selected Claws Mail would not keep you from using Thunderbird.
Maybe the initial account setup differs when mbox/maildir plugins are not only installed but also pre-activated. At least that would be worth having a look.
Cheers, vinz. _______________________________________________ openSUSE Xfce mailing list -- xfce@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email xfce-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/xfce@lists.opensuse.org
I have changed over to Thunderbird 78 in my XFCE desktop environment in openSUSE LEAP 15.2, (3 computers) imported all my digital signatures and keys. It works well, just as before. (Over 19 keys involved). My only display slight dislike is the 'blue text background' template. I use Thunderbird across many computer OSs so that will always be default for me. (It's easy to swap profile to other machines) I have never got on well with Claws Mail but that is a personal thing. This change is very much smaller than the fact that XFCE does not display correct PRINT dialog being far to big, as the buttons are off screen at bottom. So although I use XFCE for most things, I go to KDE when I need to compose or print things. Thus whereas use was 95% XFCE it is now about 60% XFCE, This "print" problem, also resulted in me changing many older computers, for seniors, where I teach and support them, from XFCE to other desktop environments. They need not only a 'light environment' but absolute default working in things like printing with LibreOffice.org -- Regards. Eion MacDonald
Hi Eion, (just a hint: creating a bug report or even just reporting thie in a dedicated mail thread might get you much more visibility for your problem instead of hijacking a totally unrelated mail thread). On 16.11.20 15:15, Imap_eionmac@btinternet.com wrote:
This change is very much smaller than the fact that XFCE does not display correct PRINT dialog being far to big, as the buttons are off screen at bottom.
As you can see here: https://paste.opensuse.org/95166202 this is not the case for me and I can not reproduce. Do you have a bugzilla number for this bugreport, preferably with some useful technical information about the affected systems, so that we can take a look at it?
They need not only a 'light environment' but absolute default working in things like printing with LibreOffice.org
Ah, ok, libreoffice, maybe that's different. https://paste.opensuse.org/49737864 No, it's not. Also works well for me. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:18:47 +0100
Stefan Seyfried
Hi Eion,
(just a hint: creating a bug report or even just reporting thie in a dedicated mail thread might get you much more visibility for your problem instead of hijacking a totally unrelated mail thread).
On 16.11.20 15:15, Imap_eionmac@btinternet.com wrote:
This change is very much smaller than the fact that XFCE does not display correct PRINT dialog being far to big, as the buttons are off screen at bottom.
As you can see here: https://paste.opensuse.org/95166202 this is not the case for me and I can not reproduce.
Do you have a bugzilla number for this bugreport, preferably with some useful technical information about the affected systems, so that we can take a look at it?
I think it's this one: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1178787 But like Seife said, let's not discuss it in this thread :) -- Maurizio Galli (m4u9) Xfce Team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:35:06 +0100
Vinzenz Vietzke
Hi,
in general I support the switch to Claws Mail. Yet we should keep collecting some more technical feedback like from Manfred. Personally I have no experience with mbox, for example. So I'd like to avoid any trouble for people.
100% agree. -- Maurizio Galli (m4u9) Xfce Team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:35:06 +0100
Vinzenz Vietzke
Hi,
in general I support the switch to Claws Mail. Yet we should keep collecting some more technical feedback like from Manfred. Personally I have no experience with mbox, for example. So I'd like to avoid any trouble for people.
After few weeks of testing and time in getting the configs right these are main things that I personally find a bit frustrating: 1) The absence of multi-threading is kinda painful when you have multiple accounts and folders being checked. While checking for emails the program is "locked up" until the checks are done, and it can take a while. 2) As IMAP Gmail user is that new emails are flagged as unread instead of as new. This breaks notifications. It's not really Claws fault but rather Gmail but still, considering the popularity of Google services it is something to keep in mind. 3) Does not seem to support imap idle protocol. 4) The config part is a bit tedious with settings scattered all over the place. The entry bar is certainly higher than Thunderbird which is kinda like plug-n-play. Other than this the software is good and feature rich. Yet I am not sure at this Thunderbird should be replaced by Claws. Cheers, -- Maurizio Galli (m4u9) Xfce Team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce
Am 26.11.20 um 07:17 schrieb Maurizio Galli:
1) The absence of multi-threading is kinda painful when you have multiple accounts and folders being checked. While checking for emails the program is "locked up" until the checks are done, and it can take a while.
[…]
Other than this the software is good and feature rich. Yet I am not sure at this Thunderbird should be replaced by Claws.
Phew. While I'm okay with ignoring points 2, 3 and 4 the first one is a severe one. Personally it never bugged me but I can confirm the problem exists. What puzzles me is that the locking only appears while sending and fetching emails. Moving emails, even large count, from one folder to another always works blazing fast. So I assume it's not related to multithread but more to mail server connections. vinz.
On 26/11/2020 07:17, Maurizio Galli wrote:
1) The absence of multi-threading is kinda painful when you have multiple accounts and folders being checked. While checking for emails the program is "locked up" until the checks are done, and it can take a while.
Yes, this was the deal-breaker for me, too. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084
On 16/11/2020 06:45, Maurizio Galli (m4u9) wrote:
I'd like to know what are the general thoughts on this and feedback if openSUSE Xfce should consider switching default to Claws Mail instead.
I am not strongly for or against. I use Thunderbird, although I find it a bit big and slow. When I started at SUSE in 2017, I started with Thunderbird, and then I switched. I tried (from memory) Evolution, Claws, Sylpheed, GNUstep Mail, KMail, Balsa, and a few others too, I think. I stuck with Claws for a while, but its lack of multithreading annoyed me. I am on multiple mailing lists and get many messages every day, and every time a batch arrived, the program locked up while it collected and sorted them into folders. I also missed calendar support. So, I switched back to T'bird and I'm still using it. It does it all, to a greater extent than any other FOSS email client I know. I have global contact lists and other niceties enabled too, but they are less important; it's rich email from multiple providers, including MS Exchange, and integrated calendaring that are the killer features for me. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084
On 16/11/2020 05:45, Maurizio Galli (m4u9) wrote:
Hello Xfce Geekos,
Thunderbird 78 dropped the standard GnuPG in favour of their own implementation of OpenPGP which sparked this discussion here: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/thread/R...
I'd like to know what are the general thoughts on this and feedback if openSUSE Xfce should consider switching default to Claws Mail instead.
Claws mail is a very powerful client and it's a lot lighter than Thunderbird, making it a good fit for Xfce. Claws mail also supports GnuPG well via a plugin that it's available OOTB.
The downside is that compared to Thunderbird, Claws Mail is a bit clunkier to configure and pretty ugly by default, although there are nice themes available.
I look forward to hearing from your thoughts. Cheers,
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Xfce mailing list -- xfce@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email xfce-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/xfce@lists.opensuse.org
I prefer Thunderbird, it woks Ok for me. -- Regards. Eion MacDonald
participants (8)
-
Imap_eionmac＠btinternet.com -
Kyrill Detinov -
Liam Proven -
Manfred Hollstein -
Maurizio Galli -
Maurizio Galli (m4u9)
-
Stefan Seyfried -
Vinzenz Vietzke