It should be time to speak about this anew, for all the ones not directly involved to 10.1 it would be nice if the new layout could be on line at the same time as 10.1, if ever possible at all. I see for now two important things: *we need a single home page to be set in the advertisements/signatures... I couldn't find the project already shown here (wikipedia like), but I liked it much may be a contest could be done (win a tee shirt :-) to find the best artwork (I'm sure not to win this :-) *we need a much simpler left column sidebar. Home (always on top, this one :-) Use SUSE Linux Download Documentation (including SDB, FAQ) Participate Community (including how to participate, communicate, projects, team, tasks) Report a bug About openSUSE News (including roadmap & events) Project overview Contacts Legal on the center panel, download be "Download the installable demo dvd" and should send directly to the stable release dvd mirror. In fact my choice should be a single _cd_ demo (SLICK?). A demo needs to be fast... bug report should be avoided. SUSE have NO bug isn't it :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 04:50:44PM +0200, jdd wrote:
*we need a much simpler left column sidebar.
Perhaps different, but not simpeler.
Home (always on top, this one :-) Use SUSE Linux Download Documentation (including SDB, FAQ)
Please more then just those two. See my postings about this earlier Documentation has most of the information. I still hate it that User Documentation is 3 steps deep hidden away. It should be on the frontpage. Just like many of the other things in http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation
Participate Community (including how to participate, communicate, projects, team, tasks) Report a bug About openSUSE News (including roadmap & events) Project overview Contacts Legal
About openSUSE should be first. The site is called openSUSE.org, so that should be the most top information First link to what openSUSE is and is not.
on the center panel, download be "Download the installable demo dvd" and should send directly to the stable release dvd mirror.
In fact my choice should be a single _cd_ demo (SLICK?). A demo needs to be fast...
Only if it is an official one. SLICK is not official. Try to download it. It does not work. It is as if SLICK had a nice start and people went on to do other things. I get a 550 on each link on http://en.opensuse.org/1_CD_install where SLICK points to.
bug report should be avoided. SUSE have NO bug isn't it :-)
SUSE might not have it, but openSUSE is about the community. They are the people that make SUSE and that community needs to know where to go with the found bugs. It is a main part of the site. So my idea is: About openSUSE What is openSUSE/FAQ Events News Roadmap Use SUSE Linux First time users Downloads User documentation (Or rename it to something like Community documentation. The name does not realy tell about the content) Product Highlights PowerPC Documentation Developer Documentation Official Novell Documentation (This page can contain all of the Novell links) Participate How to Participate Ways of communication Reporting a bug Projects Teams Tasks houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
Please more then just those two.
i think that on the sidebar two is eniugh, but I agree that there could be more links in the center panel. ideally it should be "month focus" or so, but this need a maintainer :-(
About openSUSE should be first. The site is called openSUSE.org, so that should be the most top information First link to what openSUSE is and is not.
right. I didn't think about order, only number (should no be higher than 600 pixels :-)
on the center panel, download be "Download the installable demo dvd" and should send directly to the stable release dvd mirror.
In fact my choice should be a single _cd_ demo (SLICK?). A demo needs to be fast...
Only if it is an official one. SLICK is not official. Try to download it. It does not work. It is as if SLICK had a nice start and people went on to do other things. I get a 550 on each link on http://en.opensuse.org/1_CD_install where SLICK points to.
I know, and I know there is no single demo cd, but is used to (I used it on courses 5 years ago, before the Knoppix era), and I thnk we should focus on it. people need a way to test SUSE Linux ASAP
bug report should be avoided. SUSE have NO bug isn't it :-)
SUSE might not have it, but openSUSE is about the community. They are the people that make SUSE and that community needs to know where to go with the found bugs. It is a main part of the site.
I still think it gives the idea SUSE is broken. A car vendor don't advertise the crashes he get :-)
So my idea is:
About openSUSE What is openSUSE/FAQ
these three should be one. Don't forget there is a new column on the right
Events News Roadmap
I think you mix two things * the front page * the sidebar. the sidebar is there anytime on the left. No need to have there all the detailed doc. but on the center panel of the front page, we could have "most wanted links": * ftp download of stable * howto beta test the unstable * I never met SUSE Linux, what may I know? * product Highlight (but the real one, not the present mess=what have this product that makes it special) (...) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 05:46:38PM +0200, jdd wrote:
SUSE might not have it, but openSUSE is about the community. They are the people that make SUSE and that community needs to know where to go with the found bugs. It is a main part of the site.
I still think it gives the idea SUSE is broken. A car vendor don't advertise the crashes he get :-)
I think it is what openSUSE is about: community involvement. Bug reporting is a mjor part of that.
So my idea is:
About openSUSE What is openSUSE/FAQ
these three should be one. Don't forget there is a new column on the right
Events News Roadmap
Yes, no problem there. Two links should not make their own 'chapter' on the links, so some more need be added, or they need to be placed elsewhere.
I think you mix two things
* the front page * the sidebar.
the sidebar is there anytime on the left. No need to have there all the detailed doc.
I think it needs to be there all the time. Especially becuse they are essentialy the wiki. Perhaps in other wording. Now tey are way too much hidden. I can imagine that a new user of the site stubles on them only by accident.
but on the center panel of the front page, we could have "most wanted links":
* ftp download of stable * howto beta test the unstable * I never met SUSE Linux, what may I know? * product Highlight (but the real one, not the present mess=what have this product that makes it special) (...)
A 'most wanted' can be made by looking at hits. It should be independent from what else is there. Perhaps asking the visitors what they expect from the site might give an insight into how to rebuild the site. Now we are just rearraging some links, without real feedback of the visitors. What we need to figure out is how to get to information on the site from any page, regardless of where they enter the site. Just imagine you have no knowledge of SUSE and are willing to try it out. This is the path that I would follow: 1) http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org 2) http://en.opensuse.org/Download 3) http://www.novell.com/products/suselinux/downloads/suse_linux/instructions_e... (or http://tinyurl.com/c5w6n) Now I am stuck on the Novell site. :-( ) Again: 1) and 2) and then 3) http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version 4) http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version#Downloads where I download the 5 CD's and burn them. Ok, I am ready to install 5) http://en.opensuse.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions. Oh, that's not it 6) Just try http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation Mmm. Nothing on installing SUSE there. :-( 7) Oh, wait. Some more links to Novell. It looks as if the interesting stuff is on Novell. First the download and now the link to the 10.0 Startup. 8) Doh! 404! Let's ask on IRC/Usenet/Mailinglist how I must install this. I know I should go to http://en.opensuse.org/User_Documentation, but there is no obvious reason to do so. For all I care these are pages about the users themselves. That page should realy be at the frontpage, perhaps with a different name or description. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
What we need to figure out is how to get to information on the site from any page, regardless of where they enter the site.
I know that. ands frankly made it the first link of the french documentation page :-) http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation I also tried to make a wiki map, but I'm not satisfied of it so didn't advertise it. http://fr.opensuse.org/Plan_du_wiki look at the two first links, they go * to categories. I plan to make a category tree by use or subject. the good part of it is that one page can have several categories and the sma ecategory can be on several upper level categories, so the same page can be reached by several ways * the second is for pages with sub pages. I think that documentation have at least two very different ways: doc about the distro it self, how it works, how to get it... and the real use. What do you use SUSE Linux for? your question about backups is part of the second (a "task" view). I see a backup summary with a sub page for each backup solution all this is work in progress :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
jdd wrote:
houghi wrote:
What we need to figure out is how to get to information on the site from any page, regardless of where they enter the site.
I know that. ands frankly made it the first link of the french documentation page :-)
http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation
I also tried to make a wiki map, but I'm not satisfied of it so didn't advertise it.
http://fr.opensuse.org/Plan_du_wiki
look at the two first links, they go
* to categories. I plan to make a category tree by use or subject. the good part of it is that one page can have several categories and the sma ecategory can be on several upper level categories, so the same page can be reached by several ways
* the second is for pages with sub pages. I think that documentation have at least two very different ways: doc about the distro it self, how it works, how to get it... and the real use. What do you use SUSE Linux for?
your question about backups is part of the second (a "task" view). I see a backup summary with a sub page for each backup solution
all this is work in progress :-)
jdd
Hi Jean, Look at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse is that what you looking for? That is wiki feature. And I agree with both of you that we need: 1- different site design, as houghi pointed out there is too many problems that new user have to face in order to find out how to install openSUSE. That is not near user friendly. 2- smaller install media for stable release + ftp download for the rest, as it is not good at all to confront new user with Alphas, Betas and release candidates that are all, but user friendly. I lost temper with beta 8. 3- need for user feedback is my cry for quite some time, and we need that too. Closing all pages on openSUSE behind login didn't prevented pages like http://en.opensuse.org/Windows_XP http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation/Windows_XP or with advices that are call for trouble for most computer users, like http://en.opensuse.org/Irq_Troubles to appear. In the moment there is to little active people on openSUSE wiki and too much work to do. There is too weak connection with administrative personnel of the site. -- Regards, Rajko.
Hi guys , i am new at this community and i would like to begin with translating opensuse.org to Serbian.....how can i start ??? Who is going to place Serbian language on List ? Where can i found sources of English ??? Best regards Mickey Rajko M wrote:
jdd wrote:
houghi wrote:
What we need to figure out is how to get to information on the site from any page, regardless of where they enter the site.
I know that. ands frankly made it the first link of the french documentation page :-)
http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation
I also tried to make a wiki map, but I'm not satisfied of it so didn't advertise it.
http://fr.opensuse.org/Plan_du_wiki
look at the two first links, they go
* to categories. I plan to make a category tree by use or subject. the good part of it is that one page can have several categories and the sma ecategory can be on several upper level categories, so the same page can be reached by several ways
* the second is for pages with sub pages. I think that documentation have at least two very different ways: doc about the distro it self, how it works, how to get it... and the real use. What do you use SUSE Linux for?
your question about backups is part of the second (a "task" view). I see a backup summary with a sub page for each backup solution
all this is work in progress :-)
jdd
Hi Jean,
Look at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse is that what you looking for? That is wiki feature.
And I agree with both of you that we need: 1- different site design, as houghi pointed out there is too many problems that new user have to face in order to find out how to install openSUSE. That is not near user friendly. 2- smaller install media for stable release + ftp download for the rest, as it is not good at all to confront new user with Alphas, Betas and release candidates that are all, but user friendly. I lost temper with beta 8. 3- need for user feedback is my cry for quite some time, and we need that too. Closing all pages on openSUSE behind login didn't prevented pages like http://en.opensuse.org/Windows_XP http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation/Windows_XP or with advices that are call for trouble for most computer users, like http://en.opensuse.org/Irq_Troubles to appear.
In the moment there is to little active people on openSUSE wiki and too much work to do.
There is too weak connection with administrative personnel of the site.
M.Mrvos wrote:
Hi guys , i am new at this community and i would like to begin with translating opensuse.org to Serbian.....how can i start ??? Who is going to place Serbian language on List ? Where can i found sources of English ???
Best regards
Mickey
Mickey, here is the guide: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide When you are done, come back, but please don't jump in existing thread because SUSE guys that should notice your message probably would not read all threads to find your message that translation is ready to go. Post it as new. -- Regards, Rajko.
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 06:59:04PM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
Look at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse is that what you looking for? That is wiki feature.
From there you can go to http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Uncategorizedpages 201 in total. Anybody interested in putting them in at least on catagory?
And I agree with both of you that we need: 1- different site design, as houghi pointed out there is too many problems that new user have to face in order to find out how to install openSUSE. That is not near user friendly.
ACK (DUH)
2- smaller install media for stable release + ftp download for the rest, as it is not good at all to confront new user with Alphas, Betas and release candidates that are all, but user friendly. I lost temper with beta 8.
This has nothing to do with the website. You could make a page that explains the boot.iso, or take it to opensuse-factory.
3- need for user feedback is my cry for quite some time, and we need that too. Closing all pages on openSUSE behind login didn't prevented pages like http://en.opensuse.org/Windows_XP http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation/Windows_XP
Asked for removal.
or with advices that are call for trouble for most computer users, like http://en.opensuse.org/Irq_Troubles to appear.
I don't have enough knowledge, but you can put a warning there. Not each and every article has to be for every and each user. I can imagine if you write about making your own kernel that the intended audience is different.
In the moment there is to little active people on openSUSE wiki and too much work to do.
There is too weak connection with administrative personnel of the site.
This is understandable, because of the launch of 10.1 coming nearer, yet it must be addressed. After 10.1, people will be busy with 10.2. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 06:59:04PM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
Look at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse is that what you looking for? That is wiki feature.
From there you can go to http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Uncategorizedpages 201 in total. Anybody interested in putting them in at least on catagory?
I do my best, but then when I see something like IRQ_Troubles I'll try to fix it. Than I don't have much time and many things that I see I forget to came back. BTW, what do you think how I found interesting links :-)
And I agree with both of you that we need: 1- different site design, as houghi pointed out there is too many problems that new user have to face in order to find out how to install openSUSE. That is not near user friendly.
ACK (DUH)
2- smaller install media for stable release + ftp download for the rest, as it is not good at all to confront new user with Alphas, Betas and release candidates that are all, but user friendly. I lost temper with beta 8.
This has nothing to do with the website. You could make a page that explains the boot.iso, or take it to opensuse-factory.
The web site and the media should be complimentary, so any installation media problem can make web site useless. Look at SLICK or 1_CD install. Nice ideas that are silently abandoned.
3- need for user feedback is my cry for quite some time, and we need that too. Closing all pages on openSUSE behind login didn't prevented pages like http://en.opensuse.org/Windows_XP http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation/Windows_XP
Asked for removal.
That was fast!
or with advices that are call for trouble for most computer users, like http://en.opensuse.org/Irq_Troubles to appear.
I don't have enough knowledge, but you can put a warning there. Not each and every article has to be for every and each user. I can imagine if you write about making your own kernel that the intended audience is different.
The problem is advice in article:"Upgrade if you see newer version of BIOS." Most of todays computers are branded. If you update BIOS you loose serial number written in flash ROM and one well known operating system will refuse to start. SUSE linux novice or his dad will be very displeased to discover that they can't access $500 worth of games, or some useful programs and who is to blame, of course it would be advice found on openSUSE.
In the moment there is to little active people on openSUSE wiki and too much work to do.
There is too weak connection with administrative personnel of the site.
This is understandable, because of the launch of 10.1 coming nearer, yet it must be addressed. After 10.1, people will be busy with 10.2.
And then with 10.3, 10.4 etc. You can check how long it will take to delete article that was just clear provocation. -- Regards, Rajko.
Rajko M wrote:
Most of todays computers are branded. If you update BIOS you loose serial number written in flash ROM and one well known operating system will refuse to start. SUSE linux novice or his dad will be very displeased to discover that they can't access $500 worth of games, or some useful programs and who is to blame, of course it would be advice found on openSUSE.
are you really sure of that? updating the bios is recommanded by the maother board manufacturers themselves
And then with 10.3, 10.4 etc. You can check how long it will take to delete article that was just clear provocation.
looking at the history I was not so provocated by a nearly empty article... you can't delete the page, but you can blank it if you want and if nobody cares it will remain blank :-) what I notice also is that most of the users let they own page blank, it's waste of usefullness :-) here my sysop page: http://fr.opensuse.org/Utilisateur:Jdd_sysop full os usefull links :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
jdd wrote:
Rajko M wrote:
Most of todays computers are branded. If you update BIOS you loose serial number written in flash ROM and one well known operating system will refuse to start. SUSE linux novice or his dad will be very displeased to discover that they can't access $500 worth of games, or some useful programs and who is to blame, of course it would be advice found on openSUSE.
are you really sure of that? updating the bios is recommanded by the maother board manufacturers themselves
I'm sure because I did upgrade on my old (most used) computer and result was dead board. I know that if you have white box (ie. retail version of motherboard) than BIOS update works fine, but OEM version can be different and the only valid BIOS update can come from computer vendor. Now I have new motherboard, and computer is pure Linux :-) The end of the story is not that bad at all.
And then with 10.3, 10.4 etc. You can check how long it will take to delete article that was just clear provocation.
looking at the history I was not so provocated by a nearly empty article...
I don't take that page seriously, but I'm not native english speaker too, so sometimes my expressions are bit out of proportion. Sorry :-)
you can't delete the page, but you can blank it if you want and if nobody cares it will remain blank :-)
Wiki guys ask not to blank the page, so I keep with that.
what I notice also is that most of the users let they own page blank, it's waste of usefullness :-) here my sysop page:
http://fr.opensuse.org/Utilisateur:Jdd_sysop
full os usefull links :-)
My is few links too, useful only for me :-) -- Regards, Rajko.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:36:28AM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
I don't have enough knowledge, but you can put a warning there. Not each and every article has to be for every and each user. I can imagine if you write about making your own kernel that the intended audience is different.
The problem is advice in article:"Upgrade if you see newer version of BIOS."
Most of todays computers are branded. If you update BIOS you loose serial number written in flash ROM and one well known operating system will refuse to start. SUSE linux novice or his dad will be very displeased to discover that they can't access $500 worth of games, or some useful programs and who is to blame, of course it would be advice found on openSUSE.
So edit the page and put the warning in.
You can check how long it will take to delete article that was just clear provocation.
The page might be longer. Content change took about 10 seconds. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:36:28AM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
I don't have enough knowledge, but you can put a warning there. Not each and every article has to be for every and each user. I can imagine if you write about making your own kernel that the intended audience is different. The problem is advice in article:"Upgrade if you see newer version of BIOS."
Most of todays computers are branded. If you update BIOS you loose serial number written in flash ROM and one well known operating system will refuse to start. SUSE linux novice or his dad will be very displeased to discover that they can't access $500 worth of games, or some useful programs and who is to blame, of course it would be advice found on openSUSE.
So edit the page and put the warning in.
Done. I was looking to rewrite article, but it takes some time to check the facts. I don't want to replace one limited experience with another. -- Regards, Rajko.
Rajko M wrote:
I was looking to rewrite article, but it takes some time to check the facts. I don't want to replace one limited experience with another.
in such a case I would use the discussion page to explain in some lines what happen to me jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
[F-up to openSUSE-factory] On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:36:28AM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
The web site and the media should be complimentary, so any installation media problem can make web site useless. Look at SLICK or 1_CD install. Nice ideas that are silently abandoned.
That is normal in the world of any development, be it open source or something else. If a project does not get enough momentum. it dies. SourceForge is full of them. The reason is that most projects are actually one person projects in reality. As soon as the key person steps out, the project stops. Now we can debate about how awefull this is, but what is more important is that we must discuss what to do about it AND THEN ACT UPON IT. The 1-CD page can be edited to not include the SLICK links, or can be replaced by working ones. So are there people still working on SLICK or SUPER and what is going on with that? Especially the links to opensuse.linux.co.nz and for 1-CD a working control.xml are important. Is SLICK and SUPER still alive, or has it gone down? If it has gone down, a complete re-write of http://en.opensuse.org/1_CD_install is needed. Only a working control.xml would be needed for people to get started, all other links to opensuse.linux.co.nz should then be deleted. If you have a working control.xml, you can mail it to me. I will host it (for the time being) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
[F-up to openSUSE-factory]
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:36:28AM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
The web site and the media should be complimentary, so any installation media problem can make web site useless. Look at SLICK or 1_CD install. Nice ideas that are silently abandoned.
That is normal in the world of any development, be it open source or something else. If a project does not get enough momentum. it dies. SourceForge is full of them.
Agree.
The reason is that most projects are actually one person projects in reality. As soon as the key person steps out, the project stops.
Now we can debate about how awefull this is, but what is more important is that we must discuss what to do about it AND THEN ACT UPON IT.
Agree. I liked idea, about slick SUSE that can be used as base for further development of distribution (operating system) from general purpose monster sized to application specific where OS itself is just a tool to run application specific programs. Like JackLab project for audio oriented SUSE.
The 1-CD page can be edited to not include the SLICK links, or can be replaced by working ones.
So are there people still working on SLICK or SUPER and what is going on with that? Especially the links to opensuse.linux.co.nz and for 1-CD a working control.xml are important. Is SLICK and SUPER still alive, or has it gone down?
Andreas can give you answer. I found page when SLICK was already abandoned in favor of SUPER. You can see his user page http://en.opensuse.org/User:agirardet.
If it has gone down, a complete re-write of http://en.opensuse.org/1_CD_install is needed. Only a working control.xml would be needed for people to get started, all other links to opensuse.linux.co.nz should then be deleted.
Again, Andreas is probably the best source.
If you have a working control.xml, you can mail it to me. I will host it (for the time being)
I never got one copy of 1_CD_install. Links died before I got chance to download anything :-) So, I'm still waiting for openSUSE to produce distribution that needs one CD for basic install, and stable FTP source for the rest. The last try with beta 8 asked 3 CD-s just for basic GUI system without KDE. To attract as many as possible potential users initial download has to be small, but complete GUI system, and absolutely not alpha, beta or RC. Right now I'm trying the graphic tools included in distribution, as that might be interesting for a large number of users. The GIMP is mighty, but still not really comfortable (user friendly) tool to produce nice graphic. Some examples can help. -- Regards, Rajko.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:21:55PM -0500, Rajko M wrote:
Andreas can give you answer. I found page when SLICK was already abandoned in favor of SUPER. You can see his user page http://en.opensuse.org/User:agirardet.
Will see if he reacts here.
The last try with beta 8 asked 3 CD-s just for basic GUI system without KDE.
Unclear what you mean. Did you install it without KDE, or did the KDE install not work? Normally CD1-3 are needed if you want a standard installation in English or German and with KDE or Gnome.
To attract as many as possible potential users initial download has to be small, but complete GUI system, and absolutely not alpha, beta or RC.
That last part is obvious. At this moment the download to advice to users is 10.0 and there you need CD1-5. 10.1 is not out yet. People who download alpha, beta or RC can only blame thenselves. I can not feel pity for people who download and install alpha, beta or RC on working machines. The 1CD download however is more difficult to master, because there would be too many version. You would add that what is already out there a 1CD KDE and 1CD Gnome, adding 6 CD's(32 and 64 bit and PPC). And that is just one issue. Another is that you need to decide what goes on and what does not goes on these CD's. Most likely you could only have 1 language. Not advisable, as SUSE will need German for their German userbase. At some point you need to make a choice. SUSE always has been a large distribution with much software available. If bandwith is an issue (and I understand that it is for many users) and you are unable to get a copy from a friend who downloads it in the office or from a magazine or such and are unwilling or unable to buy the boxed set, you should look at your priorities and perhaps use something that needs less download. Downloading the 1, 3, 5 or even 6 CD's or the DVD is also not the end of it. When you do a standard KDE 10.0 installation, a YOU will download 200MB. So you have the daily or weekly downloads as well. There are ways to do a 1CD installation or a installation with the boot.iso. How to do this is explained could be done better and could be explained on the 1-CD page. That said, the boot.iso is 60MB (or about that). Then you just have the boot.iso and still need to download whatever you need. A customized XML file would help bring down the minimum download. However if you compare DSL is 50MB and a complete Linux distro. So if download is a real issue, perhaps DSL is more for you. As much as I like SUSE, I understand it is not the tool for everybody in each situation. A solution was SLICK and the 1-CD installation. This was not a SUSE product and was therefore hosted on another server with the known result. You could easily pick it up and make your own 1-CD SUSE 10.1, host it somewhere and get what you want for those users who want only to have a 1CD installation. You can then do a 2CD version, as you do not need to be complient to everything. Just a 32 and a 64 bit version with KDE or Gnome. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
There are ways to do a 1CD installation or a installation with the boot.iso. How to do this is explained could be done better and could be explained on the 1-CD page.
several things * 1cd install with kde is probably dead as I beg that each new kde will be at least slightly bigger than the other, * xfce gives a light and comfortable desktop interface, largely sufficient for many uses, specially fast install, and yet quit similar to kde/windows * I think the main point should be a better documentation of how to create a suse subset, so anybody could make one himself a reason for wich I did not participate more to the SUPRE/SLICK is that I did not see any way to do that :-) and making specialized suse distros would be a must, specially cd/dvd ones. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:15:38AM +0200, jdd wrote:
* 1cd install with kde is probably dead as I beg that each new kde will be at least slightly bigger than the other,
* xfce gives a light and comfortable desktop interface, largely sufficient for many uses, specially fast install, and yet quit similar to kde/windows
I know. SUSE is a Gnome/KDE distribution. Making it into a 1CD XFCE distribution is above and beyond the duty of the SUSE people, so no help can be expected from their side (unless they do so in their free time, if they still have any.) It would also be confusing for people who first try out the 1CD version, get used to it, buy a boxed set or download a full version and suddenly get something different.
* I think the main point should be a better documentation of how to create a suse subset, so anybody could make one himself
Yes and that is what the 1-CD page is about or should be re-written to.
a reason for wich I did not participate more to the SUPRE/SLICK is that I did not see any way to do that :-)
and making specialized suse distros would be a must, specially cd/dvd ones.
Doing that is prety simple. The explanation is just a bit more complicated then first thought, that is why the page should be re-written. The process is basicilally as follows 1) makeSUSEdvd -i -s /OWN_CD 2) remove and/or add any files and RPM's you desire 3) edit control.xml 4) make a My.sel file or edit one of the existing *.sel files. 5) create_package_descr 6) cleanup and creation of some gz files for size. Can be scipped, I asume if there is enough space. 7) make iso and burn The most difficult step is step 2. Once you know that, adding 3 and 4 should not be too difficult. So what you basically are doing is prepare everything for create_package_descr. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
Rajko M wrote:
jdd wrote:
houghi wrote:
What we need to figure out is how to get to information on the site from any page, regardless of where they enter the site.
I know that. ands frankly made it the first link of the french documentation page :-)
http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation
I also tried to make a wiki map, but I'm not satisfied of it so didn't advertise it.
http://fr.opensuse.org/Plan_du_wiki
look at the two first links, they go
* to categories. I plan to make a category tree by use or subject. the good part of it is that one page can have several categories and the sma ecategory can be on several upper level categories, so the same page can be reached by several ways
* the second is for pages with sub pages. I think that documentation have at least two very different ways: doc about the distro it self, how it works, how to get it... and the real use. What do you use SUSE Linux for?
your question about backups is part of the second (a "task" view). I see a backup summary with a sub page for each backup solution
all this is work in progress :-)
jdd
Hi Jean,
Look at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse is that what you looking for? That is wiki feature.
yes and no. I tried to make an enhanced one http://fr.opensuse.org/Liste_des_catégories but it's still manual and a little messy (My goal was to add the category description)
In the moment there is to little active people on openSUSE wiki and too much work to do.
There is too weak connection with administrative personnel of the site.
I agree with the two jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
participants (4)
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houghi -
jdd -
M.Mrvos -
Rajko M