Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:

Would it help to have more top level items in the navigation bar? If yes, which ones?

probably not. Too many links is not a solution.. we need to think on this. maybe we can have some "hub" pages but the first thing to do is to sort the content by categories (not the wiki's category). What a content is good for, for whom,... may be * general infos (licence, name, roadmap) * beta tester's corner (for 10.1 and so) * download center * user help (on actual stable release) (only these in the navigation bar) the only real problem is to maintain these hubs. 2 or three of us could be in charge on one hub - is the sorting if obvious enough, the page authors will do most job themselves jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

Ok, so I think it is agreed that the navigation links on the side bar need to be changed or added to. In fact because it so central to the wiki I don't think we can really talk about the rest of the wiki until we have established what to do with the side (and top) links. We should keep the additions to a minimum. Houghi's description of 5 being acceptable is about right.

So I would add some things to the Use SUSE Linux part. Downloads Yes, I think nobody wants to remove this :-)

User documentation Yes I agree.

Official Novell Documentation (Need to make a new page, which could include Cool Solutions and stuff) I am not convinced that this needs its own page, shouldn't we aim at being the location for all documentation. And then Novell doco just becomes external links where appropriate. Especially as there is talk of importing Novell info into thw wiki.

Development Documentation. (also a new page) I think this will be more than just documentation. How about just "Developers" or "Developer Resources"

Projects (also a new page) The word "project" is a bit overused on the OpenSUSE site. "Project Overview" refers to OpenSUSE. "Projects" http://www.opensuse.org/Projects refers to other projects that Novell sponsor. "User Projects" is what you are referring to, but what makes them "User" projects? PPC should be listed on that page, which at the moment has a link from Official Novell doco. We just need to do some renaming I think. The current [[Projects]] page should move to [[Other Novell Sponsored Projects]] or similar, and the [[User Projects]] I think should be the [[Projects]] page. But yes a link to that page is OK with me....

Pflodo.

On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 11:30:47AM +1000, Peter Flodin wrote:

...

...

Official Novell Documentation (Need to make a new page, which could include Cool Solutions and stuff) I am not convinced that this needs its own page, shouldn't we aim at

I meant to say that, I am not convinced it needs a link from the sidebar, its own page is fine.

What I have done is just put all of the [[Documentation]] on the sidebar. I also used the same wording as used on that page. And why should it NOT get its own link on the sidebar? If you see what pages it hols now, I think fast access is very handy. User guide, Admin guide, ... Not realy things you would want to hide somewhere. Also we should either remove http://www.opensuse.org/Product_Highlights or completely re-write it. If those are the highlights of SUSE, I have no reason to use it. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 02:21:02PM -0700, Peter Flodin wrote:

On 30/09/05, houghi wrote:

...

I also used the same wording as used on that page. And why should it NOT get its own link on the sidebar? If you see what pages it hols now, I think fast access is very handy. User guide, Admin guide, ...

Yes but User Guide and Admin guide to what? Not the SUSE version that openSUSE is currently concerned with.

I don't think they deserve their own link on the sidebar as: 1. They are not central to openSUSE, 2. Encourages leaving of our site before our own doco has been exlpored.

Our own doco should cover everything in those guides. Of course we we should link to them, just not from the side bar. Novell user doco shoud be linked from our user doco, and Novell Developer doco should be linked to from our Developer page.

openSUSE.org should indeed have all that information. At this moment it has not, so untill all the info is in place, we can use the user and admin guide and other links. Also they are great documents, so why not put them on a seperate Novelell documentation link? I hope you understand I do not want the user and admin guide as links in the menu's. I want a page with Novell documentation as a link. On that page you have among other things a link to the user and admin guide, just as you do have now with the documentation page. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

On 01/10/05, Christian Boltz wrote:

Am Freitag, 30. September 2005 23:21 schrieb Peter Flodin: [...]

...

Yes but User Guide and Admin guide to what? [...] Our own doco should cover everything in those guides.

There are many things that still have a lack of documentation - better write about those and link to the existing User/Admin guide when it already contains the topic.

The more links the better inside the wiki, but you didn't make it clear if you want a link on the side bar to an "Official Novell Documentation" page, like Houghi proposed. Pflodo

On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 10:31:23PM +0200, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

Am Samstag, 1. Oktober 2005 23:39 schrieb Peter Flodin:

...

[...] you didn't make it clear if you want a link on the side bar to an "Official Novell Documentation" page, like Houghi proposed.

I think having one "documentation" link is enough - it should contain both "official" Novell documentation and texts in the wiki. (Best case would be if users don't see a large difference between wiki and Novell documentation.)

Having separate side bar links for Novell documentation and wiki documentation will worry most users.

The issue has solved itself. :-) On the documentation site there is PPC Documentation added. So a new proposal for the side menu: Use SUSE Linux Downloads Producs Highlights User Documentation PowerPC Documentation Developer Documentation Projects An alternative could be: Use SUSE Linux Downloads Producs Highlights User Documentation Developer Documentation Projects And then add PowerPC Documentation and a Novel Documentation page (Must be made) to User Documentation. Product Highlights, again, must be completely re-written. It should at least explain something about SUSE, what it does and also links to the differences between the versios OSS, CD and DVD. Could be also a links page, like the `User documentation page`. Or it could be something like http://www.novell.com/products/suselinux/ That way you get the following order: Homepage, click on the left menu. Subpage with more links, click on an item Get the page you were looking for. Two steps till what you are looking for is not bad at all. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

On 12/10/05, Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005, houghi wrote:

...

An alternative could be: Use SUSE Linux Downloads Producs Highlights User Documentation Developer Documentation Projects

And then add PowerPC Documentation and a Novel Documentation page (Must be made) to User Documentation.

I like the second one better, but actually I don't really have a strong opinion on that proposal... however, the head wiki editor is on vacation right now and I guess we will have to wait until he is back (in about 2 weeks) to get things fixed(tm).

Ok... This means that this discussion should be about right to continue, unless design changes have already been decided. I have created this page: http://www.opensuse.org/Proposed_Navigation with my proposal. And it will be a busy week, if the wiki roadmap will be adhered to... Pflodo.

On 27/10/05, jdd wrote:

what do you think of:

I have come to realise, that the navigation probably can't be done by consensus, as you will never get consensus. So instead I hope that the editor responsible will enter into this discussion (and we will try to influence their ideas :-), by each of us putting what we think is missing, what is not required, what is most important, and then I am sure they will be able to put something together. The main issue I see with the current navigation is that the entry point to the wiki is too small, with the single Documentation link. There are also a whole bunch of links that once you have visited openSUSE.org, you never use them again, but they are there on every page. I think we need a sitemap. The editor should know that we are willing to help, and should use us as a resource like any other collegue. Pflodo.

On Wednesday 26 October 2005 17:13, jdd wrote:

Peter Flodin wrote:

...

I have created this page: http://www.opensuse.org/Proposed_Navigation with my proposal.

And it will be a busy week, if the wiki roadmap will be adhered to...

I think a different layout could be done. first the "FAQ" has nothing to do with "about" and should be with documentation (inside the documentation page) then I think that the order should be reversed.

well, there should be also a project FAQ. But you are right that we should have also a FAQ within the document section ...

what interest first the people is dowload, then doc. Participating is important (very important), but this will anyway come after in the proccupation of most users (alas),

I don't even know is product highlights should nont be on user doc and not on main page.

yes, please not on main page ... -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de