[opensuse-wiki] Re:Wiki cleanup
Hi all Bit new to this but as apokryphos has highlighted, the organization on the wiki is a little dis-jointed. There does need to be a joint effort and discussions regarding the issues. I highlighted to apokryphos what I found in just looking at yast I'll repeat here the same. Starting with yast http://en.opensuse.org/YaST First thing with a little google there's a place holder for this page http://en.opensuse.org/Start_the_YaST_Control_Center then we get to software section. I'm just lost does it really need every version hell why not add the older ones. My suggestion is Online Update Setup, installation source, should link to a generic page that includes a merging of these. Or at least a logical follow out. Rather than the disorganization, by the way I stopped after 44 pages on google and had more to go, so I suspect there's more that fall into update and repos that I've yet to find. http://en.opensuse.org/Add_Package_Repositories_to_YaST http://en.opensuse.org/Add_a_Package_Repository_as_a_YaST_Installation_Sourc... http://en.opensuse.org/Adding_a_Package_Repository_as_a_YaST_Installation_So... http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories http://en.opensuse.org/Install_a_Package_using_YaST_Software_Management http://en.opensuse.org/KDE http://en.opensuse.org/Software_Repositories http://en.opensuse.org/Updating_KDE_and_other_software_via_YaST http://en.opensuse.org/Updating_SUSE_Linux http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/YaST_Online_Update_-_10.0 http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/YaST_Online_Update_-_10.1 http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=YaST_Additional_Packages&action=edit http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Installation_Source And then even this which I think could be a little different but does highlight my point still http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Software_Management All of the above could and should be merged in to several logical if not one page. If several then the initial pages need to follow a logical order. There seems to be no structure on the wiki I'm more than happy to help, but as to how? Some pages marked as delete over a month a go still exist, some over a year ago. Its just lets keep adding and now its got to the point where finding the wheat in the chaff is to damn hard. There shouldn't be repeats for each version tags need to be used if something is version specific the wiki has the option. Using my above suggestion what happens if you a newbie looking oh 10.2 isn't there but we know it is. If its talking about repos then lets wrap it into one generic page if we're including repos like jenglher etc then we might as well incorporate kde, both have the potential to break, why not also include xgl etc... So as a plan of attack needs addressing the involved parties need to get involved lets talk on #opensuse-wiki get some feed back and try to put the gloss back on the wiki. ___________________________________________________________ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" � The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 15 February 2007 08:44, SClarke wrote:
Hi all Bit new to this but as apokryphos has highlighted, the organization on the wiki is a little dis-jointed. There does need to be a joint effort and discussions regarding the issues. I highlighted to apokryphos what I found in just looking at yast I'll repeat here the same.
Starting with yast http://en.opensuse.org/YaST
First thing with a little google there's a place holder for this page http://en.opensuse.org/Start_the_YaST_Control_Center then we get to software section. I'm just lost does it really need every version hell why not add the older ones.
My suggestion is Online Update Setup, installation source, should link to a generic page that includes a merging of these. Or at least a logical follow out. Rather than the disorganization, by the way I stopped after 44 pages on google and had more to go, so I suspect there's more that fall into update and repos that I've yet to find.
You may try to see http://en.opensuse.org/Portal/All http://en.opensuse.org/Portal/OpenSUSE_Installation I didn't update them for a quite some time, but it is easier than looking on Google.
http://en.opensuse.org/Add_Package_Repositories_to_YaST http://en.opensuse.org/Add_a_Package_Repository_as_a_YaST_Installation_Sour ce http://en.opensuse.org/Adding_a_Package_Repository_as_a_YaST_Installation_S ource http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories http://en.opensuse.org/Install_a_Package_using_YaST_Software_Management http://en.opensuse.org/KDE http://en.opensuse.org/Software_Repositories http://en.opensuse.org/Updating_KDE_and_other_software_via_YaST http://en.opensuse.org/Updating_SUSE_Linux http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/YaST_Online_Update_-_10.0 http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/YaST_Online_Update_-_10.1 http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=YaST_Additional_Packages&action=edit http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Installation_Source And then even this which I think could be a little different but does highlight my point still http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Software_Management
All of the above could and should be merged in to several logical if not one page. If several then the initial pages need to follow a logical order.
There seems to be no structure on the wiki I'm more than happy to help, but as to how? Some pages marked as delete over a month a go still exist, some over a year ago. Its just lets keep adding and now its got to the point where finding the wheat in the chaff is to damn hard.
There shouldn't be repeats for each version tags need to be used if something is version specific the wiki has the option. Using my above suggestion what happens if you a newbie looking oh 10.2 isn't there but we know it is. If its talking about repos then lets wrap it into one generic page if we're including repos like jenglher etc then we might as well incorporate kde, both have the potential to break, why not also include xgl etc...
So as a plan of attack needs addressing the involved parties need to get involved lets talk on #opensuse-wiki get some feed back and try to put the gloss back on the wiki.
You are good candidate to become member of Portal team. I just changed not so precise word Members to Team, so go to http://en.opensuse.org/Portal join the team and let we start creating better Portal. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
I really don't intend to flame but I seriously think people are missing the point. There's more discussion in this mailing list about content, even if we accept the that content is the problem or that graphics need changing. The biggest problem for a newbie is navigating the wiki, as Suggested I did look into trying to help with the portal but honestly I gave up I began to realise just how much of a mess the wiki is in. http://en.opensuse.org/User:Fmonkey As you can see from my sandbox attempt at just trying to consolidate a new users pages into a portal, so that I included what maybe needed to enable internet connection, add sources, set up graphics, troubleshoot sound if needed, then I gave in at actual media playback. Now given a choice between these 2 pages as a Newbie I know which one I'd rather use http://gentoo-wiki.com/Main_Page http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org Then we actually get into content for both wiki's http://gentoo-wiki.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=0 http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=0 Then lets compare http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_IBM_ThinkPad_600 with http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Laptops/IBM I won't mention that we also have various other model configs. Then take a look at the amount of libzypp pages, meetings etc.. there's too much chaff now its too hard to find the wheat. The worse thing is the duplication, but I see this already starting on http://opensuse-community.org/Special:Allpages look at the repeats the version specifics etc this is whats leading to the confusion.I don't see version specific at the harder to install wiki, these need to be consolidated into the respective pages not duplicated 5 times for each version, the wiki has tags to be used. Then I also found I found more useful pages in the sdb http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=100 The confusion is absurd. As the wiki stands at the moment we have quantity over quality, I and I'm sure new users would rather have quality over quantity. Lets take out meeting transcripts, libyzipp as someone pointed out to me Gentoo is far harder to install but compare the differences on the 2 wiki's its absurd, how many pages on installing the wiki actually has. Just someone who does care about Suse and perhaps sees the problems with the wiki that others miss. I really haven't written this to upset people but I suspect some will be, and for that I apologise. Stef ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Fmonkey wrote:
The biggest problem for a newbie is navigating the wiki
in fact, better use the search feature - on my opinion, google search is even better (I setup one on my own page: http://fr.opensuse.org/Utilisateur:Jdd_sysop). I think the gentoo example you did are not better, far from, than our one, and you missed two important points here: gentoo is mush older than we are and I don't think there is really a sort of version number or distribution with gentoo (after all, we have to compîle all by ourselves) I don't think also gentoo is at all for newbies, we are.
As the wiki stands at the moment we have quantity over quality,
we have two sources: the suse book, very well organised but somewhat limited, and the wiki, made as it's writers do it. Don't think I underestimate your point. It's very important to have a well organised wiki, but all the previous tentatives failed (partly) In my opinion, we must have (and in fact we have) some "one subject by page" pages and "indexes" pages. Any too big a subject should be subdivised (subpages are a good way of doing so). And we can have as many indexes as the users need. One day or an other we will have a main page different from the one we have now (I don't say now) The center part will be organised by user categories or user needs, leading to corresponding indexes. For example: * by level: newbies, intermediate, experts * by need: before install, during install, after install, dealing with updates, desktop work, server work, refinig... and "using the wiki" because one can (as I did) make his own home page his index :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 28 February 2007 15:58, jdd wrote:
Fmonkey wrote:
The biggest problem for a newbie is navigating the wiki
in fact, better use the search feature - on my opinion, google search is even better (I setup one on my own page: http://fr.opensuse.org/Utilisateur:Jdd_sysop).
I think the gentoo example you did are not better, far from, than our one, and you missed two important points here: gentoo is mush older than we are and I don't think there is really a sort of version number or distribution with gentoo (after all, we have to compîle all by ourselves)
I don't think also gentoo is at all for newbies, we are.
As the wiki stands at the moment we have quantity over quality,
we have two sources: the suse book, very well organised but somewhat limited, and the wiki, made as it's writers do it.
Don't think I underestimate your point. It's very important to have a well organised wiki, but all the previous tentatives failed (partly)
In my opinion, we must have (and in fact we have) some "one subject by page" pages and "indexes" pages. Any too big a subject should be subdivised (subpages are a good way of doing so).
And we can have as many indexes as the users need. One day or an other we will have a main page different from the one we have now (I don't say now)
The center part will be organised by user categories or user needs, leading to corresponding indexes. For example:
* by level: newbies, intermediate, experts * by need: before install, during install, after install, dealing with updates, desktop work, server work, refinig...
and "using the wiki" because one can (as I did) make his own home page his index :-)
jdd
I presume you looked at my home page and as intermediate user I struggled to collate all that information. As you rightly pointed out you are aiming at the beginner but you'd need to be an intermediate user just to find anything on the wiki. I wouldn't start a chess game with out a plan at the moment its an amalgamation of pages not a wiki. As mentioned I found more useful pages in the sdb than any where else and you're quite correct I had to use google, but this is intermediate searching not for beginners. So either the wiki is for intermediate user or beginners. To be honest I actually use the gentoo wiki now a lot for helping to solve my own Suse problems. You give age as justification but its got nothing to do with it, structure and content is what makes it better, combined with quality control, I'm afraid I don't see it. I actually wonder how many pages libzypp has but can't be bothered to count, then I wonder how many pages for installing suse on this or that and as you pointed out Gentoo is far harder, there's better consolidation on the gentoo wiki and thats my point. Plus none of this version specific stuff, which isn't needed, it needs collating not splitting. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Fmonkey -
jdd -
Rajko M. -
SClarke