[opensuse-wiki] Get going wit the new instance

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Henne Vogelsang

10 Feb 2010 10 Feb '10

13:27

Hey, i would like to get going with the structure. Judging from the recent messages in this list we're dancing around it and don't really go forward. IMHO we're taking the wrong approach in trying to think everything through before doing anything. I think we need to take the ship out of the harbor and roll with the waves :) So I want to start tomorrow 11:00 CET with the new structure on wiki.o.o. For that i will get rid of the test content that i there today, take reviewed content from http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_list_table and general structure pages and start. I will let you know daily where i am and what you can do to help me. Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry. I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know. Any objections? Speak now or forever hold your peace! :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

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Andreas Jaeger

10 Feb 10 Feb

15:31

On Wednesday 10 February 2010 14:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hey,

i would like to get going with the structure. Judging from the recent messages in this list we're dancing around it and don't really go forward. IMHO we're taking the wrong approach in trying to think everything through before doing anything. I think we need to take the ship out of the harbor and roll with the waves :)

So I want to start tomorrow 11:00 CET with the new structure on wiki.o.o. For that i will get rid of the test content that i there today, take reviewed content from

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_list_table

and general structure pages and start. I will let you know daily where i am and what you can do to help me.

Would it make sense to hang around on a specific IRC channel for coordination besides your daily updates? Go Henne ;) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Henne Vogelsang

11 Feb 11 Feb

11:02

Hi, On 02/10/2010 04:31 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

On Wednesday 10 February 2010 14:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
i would like to get going with the structure. Judging from the recent messages in this list we're dancing around it and don't really go forward. IMHO we're taking the wrong approach in trying to think everything through before doing anything. I think we need to take the ship out of the harbor and roll with the waves :)

So I want to start tomorrow 11:00 CET with the new structure on wiki.o.o. For that i will get rid of the test content that i there today, take reviewed content from

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_list_table

and general structure pages and start. I will let you know daily where i am and what you can do to help me.

Would it make sense to hang around on a specific IRC channel for coordination besides your daily updates?

All of us are in #opensuse-wiki of course Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

13:24

AJ, 2010/2/11 Henne Vogelsang :

...

Hi,

On 02/10/2010 04:31 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 14:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
i would like to get going with the structure. Judging from the recent messages in this list we're dancing around it and don't really go forward. IMHO we're taking the wrong approach in trying to think everything through before doing anything. I think we need to take the ship out of the harbor and roll with the waves :)

So I want to start tomorrow 11:00 CET with the new structure on wiki.o.o. For that i will get rid of the test content that i there today, take reviewed content from

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_list_table

and general structure pages and start. I will let you know daily where i am and what you can do to help me.

Would it make sense to hang around on a specific IRC channel for coordination besides your daily updates?

All of us are in #opensuse-wiki of course

Feel free to join us there! Btw, we also have #opensuse-wiki-de in place now. Best, R

...

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

04:32

On Wednesday 10 February 2010 07:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hey,

i would like to get going with the structure. Judging from the recent messages in this list we're dancing around it and don't really go forward. IMHO we're taking the wrong approach in trying to think everything through before doing anything. I think we need to take the ship out of the harbor and roll with the waves :)

I agree on both points, and that is exactly what came up in IRC conversation with Remy. There is no way that we can do much more without having real tools in our hands.

...

So I want to start tomorrow 11:00 CET with the new structure on wiki.o.o. For that i will get rid of the test content that i there today,

The Main namespace can be cleaned up, but Help and openSUSE with few articles there wasn't used for testing, so there are actual articles that will be used in daily operations.

...

take reviewed content from

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_list_table

and general structure pages and start. I will let you know daily where i am and what you can do to help me.

Ok.

...

Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry.

Testing is the name of the game, but as you can see from Recent changes that I'm done with dry runs ie. "testing". The rest is real organization.

...

I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know.

It was mentioned few times in recent posts, "Archive" namespace for content that we want to keep as historic reference, for instance older Weekly News articles, Linux show reports and talks, meetings minutes etc. It should be set to be editable only by admins. There will be nothing that users should add or correct. The accompanying "Archive talk" can be editable by users, to enable comments if there is anything that should be moved, removed, or made late corrections. I'm still in favor of Development namespace, or some other name that can better describe content, for all articles that are technical in the nature, so they don't fit in openSUSE namespace, but should not mix in search results intended for general openSUSE public.

...

Any objections? Speak now or forever hold your peace! :)

:) There is something that we should think can we apply to our wiki transition: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Namespace_manager http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace_manager First has at the top of the page template that tells: "This page was recently moved from MetaWiki...." and the second has that the page has been moved to MediaWiki.org. This allows transition without much pain, and will keep users informed what happened to article that is transferred. Our message must be different like:"Article was temporarily moved to wiki.o.o ..." (instead of moved) and when we have basic transferred then switch wikis and look in server logs for "Not found" pages and fix problems if request was for existing en.o.o page. BTW, list of "not found" pages can help us improve wiki anyway, not only in case of transition related breakages. The same is valid for search that did not jump to page that we already have, but I have to look is there any hidden record/log for search.

...

Henne

-- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

13:22

2010/2/11 Rajko M. :

...

On Wednesday 10 February 2010 07:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Hey,

i would like to get going with the structure. Judging from the recent messages in this list we're dancing around it and don't really go forward. IMHO we're taking the wrong approach in trying to think everything through before doing anything. I think we need to take the ship out of the harbor and roll with the waves :)

I agree on both points, and that is exactly what came up in IRC conversation with Remy. There is no way that we can do much more without having real tools in our hands.

That's why we do it now actually :-)

...

...
So I want to start tomorrow 11:00 CET with the new structure on wiki.o.o. For that i will get rid of the test content that i there today,

The Main namespace can be cleaned up, but Help and openSUSE with few articles there wasn't used for testing, so there are actual articles that will be used in daily operations.

...
take reviewed content from

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_list_table

and general structure pages and start. I will let you know daily where i am and what you can do to help me.

Ok.

...
Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry.

Testing is the name of the game, but as you can see from Recent changes that I'm done with dry runs ie. "testing". The rest is real organization.

...
I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know.

It was mentioned few times in recent posts, "Archive" namespace for content that we want to keep as historic reference, for instance older Weekly News articles, Linux show reports and talks, meetings minutes etc.

It should be set to be editable only by admins. There will be nothing that users should add or correct. The accompanying "Archive talk" can be editable by users, to enable comments if there is anything that should be moved, removed, or made late corrections.

I'm still in favor of Development namespace, or some other name that can better describe content, for all articles that are technical in the nature, so they don't fit in openSUSE namespace, but should not mix in search results intended for general openSUSE public.

...
Any objections? Speak now or forever hold your peace! :)

:)

There is something that we should think can we apply to our wiki transition: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Namespace_manager http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace_manager

First has at the top of the page template that tells: "This page was recently moved from MetaWiki...." and the second has that the page has been moved to MediaWiki.org.

This allows transition without much pain, and will keep users informed what happened to article that is transferred.

Our message must be different like:"Article was temporarily moved to wiki.o.o ..." (instead of moved) and when we have basic transferred then switch wikis and look in server logs for "Not found" pages and fix problems if request was for existing en.o.o page.

BTW, list of "not found" pages can help us improve wiki anyway, not only in case of transition related breakages. The same is valid for search that did not jump to page that we already have, but I have to look is there any hidden record/log for search.

Not sure if this comment is needed here as what you said certainly is perfectly fine, but just to make it clear: I discussed with Henne not to move but to copy a subset of pages in Transition_table into the new instance. It may happen that we do adjustments to copied pages at en.o.o after copying to wiki.o.o and thus we'll over-write the pages another time (into built structure at wiki.o.o) once we're completely done with the reviewing. Hope this isn't too confusing :-) Best, R

...

...
Henne

-- Regards Rajko,

openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

12 Feb 12 Feb

03:52

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Get going with the new instance

On Wednesday 10 February 2010 07:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote: ...

...

Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry. I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know.

I new that I will forget something. Translations: * for languages that have not enough support to grant them own server, like currently PT_BR and BG translators. * for few articles that can bring openSUSE closer to some places, What road we want to take? 1) separate server 2) separate namespace 3) leave it for later time, before old wiki is finally closed 4) keep them as is 5) drop them (probably not an option) I vote for first as it gives more room for maneuvering, like separate namespaces to allow language specific search to work cleanly. -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

16 Feb 16 Feb

16:21

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Get going with the new instance

Rajko, 2010/2/12 Rajko M. :

...

On Wednesday 10 February 2010 07:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote: ...

...
Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry. I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know.

I new that I will forget something.

Translations: * for languages that have not enough support to grant them own server, like currently PT_BR and BG translators. * for few articles that can bring openSUSE closer to some places,

What road we want to take? 1) separate server 2) separate namespace 3) leave it for later time, before old wiki is finally closed 4) keep them as is 5) drop them (probably not an option)

I vote for first as it gives more room for maneuvering, like separate namespaces to allow language specific search to work cleanly.

Before we really can decide for 1-5, I'd investigate the commitment of local PT_BR and BG sysops. IMO it makes not too much sense to keep them IF they may be unmaintained at all. Thanks, R

...

-- Regards Rajko,

openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

16:50

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Get going with the new instance

Hi, pt_BR shares the wiki with pt instance (pt.o.o). As we share the mailing list and irc channel. Feel free to remove the PT_BR pages from en.o.o Regards, Luiz 2010/2/16 Rupert Horstkötter :

...

Rajko,

2010/2/12 Rajko M. :

...
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 07:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote: ...

...
Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry. I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know.

I new that I will forget something.

Translations: * for languages that have not enough support to grant them own server, like currently PT_BR and BG translators. * for few articles that can bring openSUSE closer to some places,

What road we want to take? 1) separate server 2) separate namespace 3) leave it for later time, before old wiki is finally closed 4) keep them as is 5) drop them (probably not an option)

I vote for first as it gives more room for maneuvering, like separate namespaces to allow language specific search to work cleanly.

Before we really can decide for 1-5, I'd investigate the commitment of local PT_BR and BG sysops. IMO it makes not too much sense to keep them IF they may be unmaintained at all.

Thanks, R

...
-- Regards Rajko,

openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

17:37

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Get going with the new instance

Fernando, thanks for making this clear, much appreciated. All, now we just need a BG statement and we're done with this. Best, R 2010/2/16 Luiz Fernando Ranghetti :

...

Hi,

pt_BR shares the wiki with pt instance (pt.o.o). As we share the mailing list and irc channel. Feel free to remove the PT_BR pages from en.o.o

Regards,

Luiz

2010/2/16 Rupert Horstkötter :

...
Rajko,

2010/2/12 Rajko M. :

...
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 07:27:17 Henne Vogelsang wrote: ...

...
Rajko you would have to limit your testing to a specific area, sorry. I propose /Rajko or do you need something else like a namespace or something? Please let me know.

I new that I will forget something.

Translations: * for languages that have not enough support to grant them own server, like currently PT_BR and BG translators. * for few articles that can bring openSUSE closer to some places,

What road we want to take? 1) separate server 2) separate namespace 3) leave it for later time, before old wiki is finally closed 4) keep them as is 5) drop them (probably not an option)

I vote for first as it gives more room for maneuvering, like separate namespaces to allow language specific search to work cleanly.

Before we really can decide for 1-5, I'd investigate the commitment of local PT_BR and BG sysops. IMO it makes not too much sense to keep them IF they may be unmaintained at all.

Thanks, R

...
-- Regards Rajko,

openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

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participants (5)

Andreas Jaeger
Henne Vogelsang
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti
Rajko M.
Rupert Horstkötter