[opensuse-wiki] new wiki.o.o ...

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[opensuse-wiki] Ideas on Weekly...

Adrian Schröter

25 May 2010 25 May '10

06:53

Good morning, While try to use the wiki these days I run into several issues. As far as I understand the en.o.o is about to go away. So I need to add new stuff to wiki.o.o, right ? My problem starts that I don't find my pages anymore. I still need en.o.o just to find the pages, because I don't find anything usefull via the wiki.o.o search due to the new layout. Try to search for "Build Service" or "Build Service Concepts". Both works great in en.o.o wiki, but wiki.o.o search does not deliver a single entry which makes sense to me due to the new layout. Another problem is that the Concept page works via category lists now. This is less ovious to use and frankly, I consider that these were pages which I and other wiki novice users do maintain. This does increase the hurdle for us to add/modify concept pages. Frankly, I stopped working on the wiki pages since wiki.o.o exists, since I lost completly the overview what is going on. But since the wiki is our main documentation point this is no longer a solution for us. I need also to know which links will break when wiki.o.o will become the default one. Will en.o.o go away ? Will wiki.o.o get moved ? If something like this happens will break all our links in our OBS products. Please tell if you think we missuse wiki/en.opensuse.org for OBS (actually we plan to add way better integrated help links, which is currently blocked by the unknown state of the wiki). In that case we need to setup our own wiki, where we can rely on. But that would be a not wanted extra effort for us. thanks adrian PS: sorry if I sound a bit negative, but it really blocks OBS release atm. PPS: The new pages in wiki.o.o look really much better then the old ones. So what about just move these pages to en.o.o ? This would keep the search working and in case you still want to rename a page, you can use the "move" functionality, so we avoid broken links. -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de

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Henne Vogelsang

25 May 25 May

10:53

Adrian! Rocky! Adrian! Rocky! Adrian, On 05/25/2010 08:53 AM, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

While try to use the wiki these days I run into several issues.

Oh my...

...

As far as I understand the en.o.o is about to go away. So I need to add new stuff to wiki.o.o, right ?

If you want to help with the transition yes. We're not there yet so currently the old and the new one run side by side. We are trying to get it into a state to publish it. wiki.opensuse.org is temporary.

...

My problem starts that I don't find my pages anymore. I still need en.o.o just to find the pages, because I don't find anything usefull via the wiki.o.o search due to the new layout.

Try to search for "Build Service" or "Build Service Concepts". Both works great in en.o.o wiki, but wiki.o.o search does not deliver a single entry which makes sense to me due to the new layout.

The search is not searching all the namespaces it has to, that a missing feature/bug. It's supposed to search main and Portal: and if you use this search form: http://wiki.opensuse.org/index.php?search=&ns0=1&ns102=1&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=Search&fulltext=Search it will find "Build Service" or "Build Service Concepts" on Portal:Build Service.

...

Another problem is that the Concept page works via category lists now. This is less ovious to use and frankly, I consider that these were pages which I and other wiki novice users do maintain. This does increase the hurdle for us to add/modify concept pages.

If you go to the history page of openSUSE:Build_Service_Concepts you will find who implemented it this way. You should talk to Tom :)

...

Frankly, I stopped working on the wiki pages since wiki.o.o exists, since I lost completly the overview what is going on. But since the wiki is our main documentation point this is no longer a solution for us.

C'mon because you don't invest 5 minutes to find out about search options and because someone (that sits 4 offices down the floor and goes to lunch with you all the time) used a more advanced wiki feature on a page and you don't like it, you stop working with the wiki? Aren't you a little bit dramatic? :)

...

I need also to know which links will break when wiki.o.o will become the default one. Will en.o.o go away? Will wiki.o.o get moved?

Once we release, wiki.o.o will be en.o.o again. Like i said, wiki.o.o is temporary. What is now on en.o.o will be legacy.o.o (or something) for a couple of months so we can rescue content that we missed during the transition.

...

If something like this happens will break all our links in our OBS products.

Jepp. How many links are we talking about? Shouldnt be that many right? You will have to push an update with this sorry. We are really trying to create a new wiki that is usable even if that means we have to fix other stuff.

...

Please tell if you think we missuse wiki/en.opensuse.org for OBS

Of course not. The wiki is the main source of information about the openSUSE project and distribution. The OBS is a major part of our project.

...

actually we plan to add way better integrated help links, which is currently blocked by the unknown state of the wiki.

[...]

...

PS: sorry if I sound a bit negative, but it really blocks OBS release atm.

I'm glad you came out of the closet then. What is blocking you exactly? I'm confident we can help you.

...

In that case we need to setup our own wiki, where we can rely on.

Don't get stupid with us Adrian :) Just work with us. OBS is very important but a good wiki is too. So lets work together on resolving this instead of throwing dirt around should we? Please. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Adrian Schröter

26 May 26 May

06:27

Am Dienstag, 25. Mai 2010, 12:53:03 schrieb Henne Vogelsang: ...

...

...
My problem starts that I don't find my pages anymore. I still need en.o.o just to find the pages, because I don't find anything usefull via the wiki.o.o search due to the new layout.

Try to search for "Build Service" or "Build Service Concepts". Both works great in en.o.o wiki, but wiki.o.o search does not deliver a single entry which makes sense to me due to the new layout.

The search is not searching all the namespaces it has to, that a missing feature/bug. It's supposed to search main and Portal: and if you use this search form:

http://wiki.opensuse.org/index.php?search=&ns0=1&ns102=1&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=Search&fulltext=Search

it will find "Build Service" or "Build Service Concepts" on Portal:Build Service.

Ah, great, I was not aware of that. ...

...

...
I need also to know which links will break when wiki.o.o will become the default one. Will en.o.o go away? Will wiki.o.o get moved?

Once we release, wiki.o.o will be en.o.o again. Like i said, wiki.o.o is temporary. What is now on en.o.o will be legacy.o.o (or something) for a couple of months so we can rescue content that we missed during the transition.

Will the name wiki.o.o still deliver the content of en.o.o ?

...

...
If something like this happens will break all our links in our OBS products.

Jepp. How many links are we talking about? Shouldnt be that many right? You will have to push an update with this sorry. We are really trying to create a new wiki that is usable even if that means we have to fix other stuff.

Currently there are not that many. But I would like to have way more actually. And it is already work to adapt the links (and find out where the pages went. Okay much easier now, if the search will work for me).

...

...
Please tell if you think we missuse wiki/en.opensuse.org for OBS

Of course not. The wiki is the main source of information about the openSUSE project and distribution. The OBS is a major part of our project.

...
actually we plan to add way better integrated help links, which is currently blocked by the unknown state of the wiki.

[...]

...
PS: sorry if I sound a bit negative, but it really blocks OBS release atm.

I'm glad you came out of the closet then. What is blocking you exactly? I'm confident we can help you.

We need stable links to wiki pages.

...

...
In that case we need to setup our own wiki, where we can rely on.

Don't get stupid with us Adrian :) Just work with us. OBS is very important but a good wiki is too. So lets work together on resolving this instead of throwing dirt around should we? Please.

Seriously this is an issue. I want to have way more help links in our webui pointing to some documentation. But the wiki is only usable for us when the standard wiki mechanisms like "move page" are used, so we do not need to release an entire OBS just to fix links after a page move. -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de

Henne Vogelsang

10:17

Hi, On 05/26/2010 08:27 AM, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 25. Mai 2010, 12:53:03 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:

...
...
actually we plan to add way better integrated help links, which is currently blocked by the unknown state of the wiki.

[...]

...
PS: sorry if I sound a bit negative, but it really blocks OBS release atm.

I'm glad you came out of the closet then. What is blocking you exactly? I'm confident we can help you.

We need stable links to wiki pages.

Okay when? It's kind of tricky right now because we're in the middle of creating a new wiki. Would it be okay if you have stable links that redirect into the temporary wiki until we go live? I have to talk to Matthew but it should be possible with interwiki redirects. The only downside of this would be that your users would end up for a short timeframe (until we go live) in a temporary wiki. With complete, up to date OBS documentation but maybe other stuff that is missing.

...

...
...
In that case we need to setup our own wiki, where we can rely on.

Don't get stupid with us Adrian :) Just work with us. OBS is very important but a good wiki is too. So lets work together on resolving this instead of throwing dirt around should we? Please.

Seriously this is an issue. I want to have way more help links in our webui pointing to some documentation. But the wiki is only usable for us when the standard wiki mechanisms like "move page" are used, so we do not need to release an entire OBS just to fix links after a page move.

Well we are creating a completely new wiki from the ground up at the moment so you may have to live with some inconveniences. Once we go live we will of course use standard wiki mechanisms like move. But look at the solution above, if thats okay, we'll try to get this set up for you. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Matthew Ehle

15:11

Hi, It looks like MediaWiki disables the ability for external redirects for security reasons (good ones in my opinion). While I can look at the possibility of enabling this, I see two other options that might be better. 1- Set up "soft redirects", which is what MediaWiki recommends. Basically, we just leave a link pointing to wiki.o.o/Page on en.o.o/Page, and leave it up to the user to follow the link. 2- Implement Apache redirects with an .htaccess file. I can temporarily allow the use of .htaccess files on en.o.o that will contain a list of redirects from en.o.o to wiki.o.o. Performance shouldn't be an issue since the wiki servers are underutilized, but it is a pretty unwieldy way to handle things. Matthew Ehle Web Engineer Application Development & Maintenance Affiliated Computer Services, Inc A Xerox Company Mobile Phone: (801) 228-8043 Office Phone: (801) 861-2722 mehle@novell.com

...

...
...
Henne Vogelsang 5/26/2010 4:17 AM >>> Hi,

On 05/26/2010 08:27 AM, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 25. Mai 2010, 12:53:03 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:

...
...
actually we plan to add way better integrated help links, which is currently blocked by the unknown state of the wiki.

[...]

...
PS: sorry if I sound a bit negative, but it really blocks OBS release atm.

I'm glad you came out of the closet then. What is blocking you exactly? I'm confident we can help you.

We need stable links to wiki pages.

...

...
...
In that case we need to setup our own wiki, where we can rely on.

Don't get stupid with us Adrian :) Just work with us. OBS is very important but a good wiki is too. So lets work together on resolving this instead of throwing dirt around should we? Please.

Seriously this is an issue. I want to have way more help links in our webui pointing to some documentation. But the wiki is only usable for us when the standard wiki mechanisms like "move page" are used, so we do not need to release an entire OBS just to fix links after a page move.

Rajko M.

27 May 27 May

00:33

On Wednesday 26 May 2010 10:11:31 Matthew Ehle wrote:

...

It looks like MediaWiki disables the ability for external redirects for security reasons (good ones in my opinion). While I can look at the possibility of enabling this, I see two other options that might be better.

It can be enabled, but it can be call for spammers.

...

1- Set up "soft redirects", which is what MediaWiki recommends. Basically, we just leave a link pointing to wiki.o.o/Page on en.o.o/Page, and leave it up to the user to follow the link.

I already voted for that when Template:TransferNote was changed to have ability to point to moved articles. The problem will come when wikies are switched, and old Build Service links disappear. The cure for this, until Adrian fixes Build Service, is to collect old links and create redirects to new pages. (It would be nice if Build Service would be the only problem.) -- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

09:39

Hey Matthew, On 05/26/2010 05:11 PM, Matthew Ehle wrote:

...

It looks like MediaWiki disables the ability for external redirects for security reasons (good ones in my opinion). While I can look at the possibility of enabling this, I see two other options that might be better.

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDisableHardRedirects We could simply enable this on en.o.o until we go live. We would get redirects that we can maintain without bothering you all the time. That sounds way better to me, agreed? :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Matthew Ehle

22:19

...

...
It looks like MediaWiki disables the ability for external redirects for security reasons (good ones in my opinion). While I can look at the possibility of enabling this, I see two other options that might be better.

...

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDisableHardRedirects

...

We could simply enable this on en.o.o until we go live. We would get redirects that we can maintain without bothering you all the time. That sounds way better to me, agreed? :)

I actually found a way to do this without changing any wiki settings. In the interwiki table, there is a field called iw_local for specifying whether the interwiki link should be treated as if it were a link to the local wiki. I added wiki.opensuse.org to the English interwiki table and set the iw_local setting to "1", so that only hard redirects to wiki.o.o are allowed. I did this on both stage and production. Here is the test page for stage: http://enstage.opensuse.org/TestPage To create the redirect, set up the article using only this text: #REDIRECT [[wiki:<WikiPage>]] Matthew Ehle Web Engineer Application Development & Maintenance Affiliated Computer Services, Inc A Xerox Company Mobile Phone: (801) 228-8043 Office Phone: (801) 861-2722 mehle@novell.com

Thomas Schmidt

25 May 25 May

14:20

On 25.05.2010 08:53, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Good morning, ...

Another problem is that the Concept page works via category lists now.

This is less ovious to use and frankly, I consider that these were pages which I and other

wiki novice users do maintain. This does increase the hurdle for us to add/modify concept

pages.

I used the <DynamicPageList> tag here to automatically list pages of the categories "Build Service implemented concepts" and "Build Service draft concepts" so we don't need to maintain this list manually. When adding a page to one of the categories above it will automatically be listed on the concepts page. (a page is assigned to a category by adding: [[Category:]] ) But you can for sure decide to maintain this list manually, it's a wiki ;-) Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) openSUSE Boosters Team "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

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Adrian Schröter
Henne Vogelsang
Matthew Ehle
Rajko M.
Thomas Schmidt