Hi, on UserBase/TechBase KDE community uses the Translate extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate Here some recent useful resources to better understand the tool: a presentation http://www.neverendingo.de/multiling_wiki/#/start + the video: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Making_Multilingual_Wiki... source (developer's blog): http://laxstrom.name/blag/2012/08/16/my-presentations-at-akademy-and-wikiman... Caig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2012-09-07 02:07, Marguerite Su wrote:

But current infrastructure makes it possible that someone who don't speak English at all can "write" wikis instead of "just" translating.

In that case the system would be used to translate to English. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlBJS7AACgkQja8UbcUWM1wcpAD9ELGenVBrTsgaqWWe3jtPcq3b EDXVvxhOMjrmJnQlwtAA/13+k5UvsTQ3j/SBgyLZRL2T0+DXQN04OYLmxcBYEmcU =l2Pp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org

2012/9/7 Marguerite Su :

I didn't see any KDE wiki is written in French. or there is but I misunderstood and thought English is the original version?

Because the main purpose of KDE wikis is to share the same content translated in as many languages as possible, so they start from the English page just because is the easier text source for the translators.

If there is, why I get this feeling? because it displays me English first.

Once you opened a page in your language, the links always point to the translated pages in your language (if available). Sadly in this moment this feature seems broken :P.... Sorry in advance if I'm not understandable, I try to write as best as I can :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Margerite, you emails are complex :) On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:11:49 +0800 Marguerite Su wrote: ...

I didn't see any KDE wiki is written in French. or there is but I misunderstood and thought English is the original version? If there is, why I get this feeling? because it displays me English first.

English is common as a foreign language, so it is not surprise to direct people to en wiki at first, with options on the main page to choose another.

I just think current infrastructure make it possible for translators to selectively translate wiki posts into en.o.o and vise versa.

eg: Japanese Input methods. Russian Dictionaries.

That two examples are typical topics that don't need translation, but almost all other technical stuff can be translated in any direction, where any means any language to any language. eg. Original http://en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander was written in German, now available only on old German wiki http://old-de.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander . During translation I decided to add some stuff now on: http://en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander/Tips so it is not strictly translation, but I achieved main goal, to have article about Midnight Commander in another language, and secondary improved original content with few tips. In general translations are done to allow people with limited, or without, language skills to participate in openSUSE. With many applications translated to many local languages, they are accessible to people without English skills. This makes possible that a digital artist can write about using GIMP to achieve certain effects in his native language, and then with translations that can be made available to other. -- Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 18:28:19 +0800 Marguerite Su wrote:

On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Rajko wrote:

...

English is common as a foreign language, so it is not surprise to direct people to en wiki at first, with options on the main page to choose another.

Yes, but now we've already had an en wiki can do that( through inter-wiki links, its the same effects as you said, "with options"), and locale wikis for those who doesn't speak English at all to feel at home. It seems to be the standard way since wikipedia does so.

Wikipedia has its own needs, drawbacks and advantages, so we can't just copy their example: * They have many editors that perform maintenance. - We don't. * They have to keep compatibility with solutions that are developed for MediaWiki software with much lesser functionality then it is today, as changes can be extremely labor intensive. - We have to keep links alive, even as redirects, to satisfy third party web sites, links in paper documents, and lower maintenance of our infrastructure, other than that we can change almost anything, specially if that will mean easier contribution, translation and maintenance.

This topic has been discussed several days, so I almost forget its original purpose, but as I think, it is to use KDE wiki technology to replace our current one.

Originally thread was started as a status reminder of our translations, when Michael mentioned KDE translation system as the way to improve translations.

But that will remove the current feature that you have the choice to view English or not without having to click here and there.

Separate servers have their advantages: * Separate default search, so users don't have to fiddle much looking for proper search, like in: http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Support * Separate search has disadvantage too, because the only common search for the whole opensuse.org domain is some web search, like Google. Try search on http://opensuse.org, then Google "site:opensuse.org" and then "site:en.opensuse.org". I used as a search term "apper" and I got quite different results. * Separate content organization, so that is better aligned with local expectations. This part should not go too far from main wiki, in this case English, but there is more flexibility in the process. Disadvantage is that people don't know what is happening outside their wiki. It is splitting community, even those that speak multiple languages will be kept away.

... The KDE way aims to be user friendly, but that user experience has to be achieved only in the un-friendly way.

KDE way needs some tuning. Language index: It is the same for all translations, but it is in English. Wikipedia and openSUSE use translated language names, which is better, as visitors that don't know any languages, will find their own in the list, without knowing word of English. The page layout is sometimes a bit problematic: http://userbase.kde.org/Special:SupportedLanguages Font sizes, colors don't help reading.

... Actually if you have to discuss Chinese on a English forum, most of the people have only one choice, go away. because that requires you at least know the meaning of basic English words like "register", "login", "accept", "email address", "password".

Right. I added above to the thread [opensuse-project] Bugzilla requirements gathering exercise

... But I can't be okay about just "change" for "change" because current one is better then the option they provide.

We'll see if we can get one public server to test extension and gather experience. I went once trough wiki change and this time we will test well and see how it works for us. It is necessary to say that translation extension can be used to translate other stuff, like strings used in software, so even if it fails to be like userbase KDE wiki, it is not wasted effort. https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate Matt, what do you think about technical viability?

Marguerite

-- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org

Caig wrote:

Hi, on UserBase/TechBase KDE community uses the Translate extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate

Here some recent useful resources to better understand the tool: a presentation http://www.neverendingo.de/multiling_wiki/#/start + the video: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Making_Multilingual_Wiki...

source (developer's blog): http://laxstrom.name/blag/2012/08/16/my-presentations-at-akademy-and-wikiman...

Caig

On http://techbase.kde.org/KDE_TechBase:About it also says: "It was always the intention that TechBase should be translated into as many languages as possible. In reality it proved a little difficult to maintain. In 2010 work began on moving all translations to a new system, developed by Siebrand Mazeland and Niklas Laxström of Translatewiki.net. This system allows both professional translation and amateurs with reasonable language knowledge to adopt pages for translation to their language. A single page allows a translator to monitor changes that affect his translated pages. You are invited to help us build a truly international resource for all users." So it may be more custom than just a mediawiki extension? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org

On 10.09.2012 12:55, Efstathios Iosifidis wrote:

Hello,

Greek page is translated but I canot accept the changes. I don't have rights, although I'm translation coordinator. Is it possible the admins (I sent them mail) to help me on that.

The admins of the greek wiki are: http://el.opensuse.org/%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82:Azouts http://el.opensuse.org/%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82:Diamond_gr http://el.opensuse.org/%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82:Etern4L http://el.opensuse.org/%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82:Warlordfff Please contact them to check if they are still active in the greek wiki. Greetings

Stathis

2012/9/6 Thomas Schmidt :

...

Hi, I took the current release as a reason to check the state of our language wikis. I found out that we have some wikis which are perfectly up-to-date, some need some work, and some are completely outdated.

If you feel that you can help on one of the outdated wikis, please step up and help fixing at least the frontpage and the Portal:12.2. The english wiki can be taken as a reference.

I will also contact the wiki admins of the outdated wikis individually and see if they are still interested in maintaining their language wiki, because in the end we should drop the unmaintained wikis.

Thanks for your help :-)

Here is a summary of the wikis:

== Perfect: http://cs.opensuse.org http://de.opensuse.org http://it.opensuse.org http://hu.opensuse.org http://ru.opensuse.org http://zh.opensuse.org http://zh-tw.opensuse.org

== Partly: http://fr.opensuse.org/Portal:12.2 mostly complete 12.2 http://el.opensuse.org 12.2 links to Factory page http://es.opensuse.org 12.2 Portal partially broken http://nl.opensuse.org links to en portal from frontpage http://pt.opensuse.org no link to 12.2 at all http://sv.opensuse.org no link to 12.2 at all http://tr.opensuse.org no link to 12.2 http://ja.opensuse.org 12.2 not yet linked

== Outdated: http://is.opensuse.org/ stuck on 11.2 http://fi.opensuse.org nearly no content http://vi.opensuse.org stuck on 11.1, not much content

Greetings

-- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (11.03.1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org

-- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (11.03.1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+owner@opensuse.org