[opensuse-wiki] German Wiki

Rupert Horstkötter

6 Jan 2010 6 Jan '10

11:31

Team, so far, our openSUSE Wiki Usability Concept is (at first glance) focused on the English instance while adopting language wikis (de, fr, es, ..) in a second stage. As we value the convenience of customers/users, i.e. this is our ultimate goal with the Usability Concept, I did some market analysis and found out that the major part of openSUSE users is located in Germany according to http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics To be even more specific, we have a percentage of 29,6% of openSUSE installations in Germany and this is by far the largest user-community around the world. Open-slx statistics (# of sold openSUSE Box products) even outline a significant 90% share of customers in Germany. That said, we urgently need to consider this while implementing the Concept and put efforts into the parallel proceeding of the German instance while going forward with the English Wiki. We, as open-slx, will put a significant amount of workforce into this effort while we'll further support the English Article Reviewing as well with Jon Rocker as open-slx employee. My collegues from open-slx (Nico, Jens and Sascha) are in CC: for their reference here. We're certainly still dependent on Community involvement though. So, if you are a German native speaker, feel free to step up and jump in by following the opensuse-wiki mailinglist. We'll provide more information as soon as we adopted the Transition plan to the German instance. Remy, may you please provide an overview about the outcome of the efforts we put into the Engish instance so far (templates, transition_list, transition_guidelines and so on) in order to empower open-slx workforce to work on translation efforts and to finally come up with a similar Article Reviewing plan for the German Wiki instance? Also, may you be able to provide a Transition_list similar to the English instance for the German one? I guess you're in charge here and have the best insight of wiki seniors. Thanks in advance! Open-slx collegues, may I provide a quick introduction (Remy will provide more details) about the current transition plan and the Article Reviewing we put in place for the English instance: We worked on standardized templates [1], [2] for usage within articles, we came up with an article template [3] to ensure a consistent look&feel for the openSUSE Wiki and we finally implemented a Transition Plan that describes the actual reviewing and migrating of reviewed articles into the new wiki instance. It's too much noise to explain this in an email, so I'd like to refer you to [4] and specifically [5]. That said, in order to come up with a similar effort for the German Instance in parallel we'd first need to translate the templates and the transition guidelines while we wait for Remy to come up with a transition list for the German instance. Please read the provided documents for a quick insight and ask questions so that I can help you to sync with the efforts of the last 3 months. Also please get access to the #opensuse-wiki channel on IRC Freenode in order to communicate with the Wiki Team in realtime. Usually there's a wiki senior around at any time that is able to answer specific questions. OK, thanks for listening and thanks to everyone involved making this effort a big success for the community. Let's come up with something awesome. Best, R [1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Template_Guidelines [2] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Tag_Guidelines [3] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template [4] http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines [5] http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines#Step_1_:_Articles_review -- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

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Clayton

6 Jan 6 Jan

11:39

...

Concept, I did some market analysis and found out that the major part of openSUSE users is located in Germany according to http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics

At least one of the users in Germany is English speaking :-) There are a few more openSUSE users as well amongst the large expat community here in DE

...

Open-slx statistics (# of sold openSUSE Box products) even outline a significant 90% share of customers in Germany.

Is this because there are actually more shops carrying openSUSE box sets in DE? In my travels I rarely see openSUSE boxes anywhere else - I do know of 2 shops in the NL that carry openSUSE boxes... but not many others. Translations are critical though... both to and from DE to cover the very large German openSUSE community. I wish I could help, but my DE skills are not even good enough to order beer. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

11:56

2010/1/6 Clayton :

...

...
Concept, I did some market analysis and found out that the major part of openSUSE users is located in Germany according to http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics

At least one of the users in Germany is English speaking :-) There are a few more openSUSE users as well amongst the large expat community here in DE

...
Open-slx statistics (# of sold openSUSE Box products) even outline a significant 90% share of customers in Germany.

Is this because there are actually more shops carrying openSUSE box sets in DE? In my travels I rarely see openSUSE boxes anywhere else - I do know of 2 shops in the NL that carry openSUSE boxes... but not many others.

This certainly may be the case but the general investigation still is ... Germany is (by far) the biggest openSUSE user-community around the whole world. See http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics for more detailed informations.

...

Translations are critical though... both to and from DE to cover the very large German openSUSE community. I wish I could help, but my DE skills are not even good enough to order beer.

As a german resident this should be fixed asap imho :-) Something along the lines "Ich hätte gerne ein Bier" should work out. Best, R

...

C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

12:05

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Re: German Wiki

Frank, was brauchen wir hier serverseitig zusätzliches? Noch eine neue Instanz wiki.o.o um die deutschen Artikel zu migrieren wenn das Reviewing abgeschlossen ist? Oder nur eine subdomain ala de.wiki.o.o? Danke, R Am 6. Januar 2010 12:31 schrieb Rupert Horstkötter :

...

Team,

so far, our openSUSE Wiki Usability Concept is (at first glance) focused on the English instance while adopting language wikis (de, fr, es, ..) in a second stage. As we value the convenience of customers/users, i.e. this is our ultimate goal with the Usability Concept, I did some market analysis and found out that the major part of openSUSE users is located in Germany according to http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics

To be even more specific, we have a percentage of 29,6% of openSUSE installations in Germany and this is by far the largest user-community around the world. Open-slx statistics (# of sold openSUSE Box products) even outline a significant 90% share of customers in Germany. That said, we urgently need to consider this while implementing the Concept and put efforts into the parallel proceeding of the German instance while going forward with the English Wiki.

We, as open-slx, will put a significant amount of workforce into this effort while we'll further support the English Article Reviewing as well with Jon Rocker as open-slx employee. My collegues from open-slx (Nico, Jens and Sascha) are in CC: for their reference here. We're certainly still dependent on Community involvement though. So, if you are a German native speaker, feel free to step up and jump in by following the opensuse-wiki mailinglist. We'll provide more information as soon as we adopted the Transition plan to the German instance.

Remy,

may you please provide an overview about the outcome of the efforts we put into the Engish instance so far (templates, transition_list, transition_guidelines and so on) in order to empower open-slx workforce to work on translation efforts and to finally come up with a similar Article Reviewing plan for the German Wiki instance? Also, may you be able to provide a Transition_list similar to the English instance for the German one? I guess you're in charge here and have the best insight of wiki seniors. Thanks in advance!

Open-slx collegues,

may I provide a quick introduction (Remy will provide more details) about the current transition plan and the Article Reviewing we put in place for the English instance: We worked on standardized templates [1], [2] for usage within articles, we came up with an article template [3] to ensure a consistent look&feel for the openSUSE Wiki and we finally implemented a Transition Plan that describes the actual reviewing and migrating of reviewed articles into the new wiki instance. It's too much noise to explain this in an email, so I'd like to refer you to [4] and specifically [5]. That said, in order to come up with a similar effort for the German Instance in parallel we'd first need to translate the templates and the transition guidelines while we wait for Remy to come up with a transition list for the German instance.

Please read the provided documents for a quick insight and ask questions so that I can help you to sync with the efforts of the last 3 months. Also please get access to the #opensuse-wiki channel on IRC Freenode in order to communicate with the Wiki Team in realtime. Usually there's a wiki senior around at any time that is able to answer specific questions.

OK, thanks for listening and thanks to everyone involved making this effort a big success for the community. Let's come up with something awesome.

Best, R

[1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Template_Guidelines [2] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Tag_Guidelines [3] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template [4] http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines [5] http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines#Step_1_:_Articles_review -- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com

Rémy Marquis

15:23

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Re: German Wiki

...

Remy,

may you please provide an overview about the outcome of the efforts we put into the Engish instance so far (templates, transition_list, transition_guidelines and so on) in order to empower open-slx workforce to work on translation efforts and to finally come up with a similar Article Reviewing plan for the German Wiki instance?

Sure. In short, the "must have" pages to be translated for the German wiki transition are: * openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines ** openSUSE:Wiki_Style_Guidelines which may evolve with the feedback we receive. The described Capitalization guideline might not apply to DE wiki :) ** openSUSE:Wiki_Template_Guidelines ** openSUSE:Template_Messages which regroups all essential templates (~70 templates, vs more than 400 a few weeks ago) ** openSUSE:Article_Template (standardized template for all articles) *Transition_Guidelines#Step_1_:_Articles_review (step 2 is still WIP and will be handle later, when article checking is ready) ** Template:NoTransfer, Template:InReview, Template:Reviewed are templates useful for transition process. Refer to the Transition Guidelines articles to know how to use them :) With those basic pages, you can start checking articles in the German wiki (step1). The transition in the new wiki is Step 2. Also, openSUSE:Wiki_Tag_Guidelines is ready and useful for maintenance purpose (it might be adapted to the German wiki needs). What you don't need yet / don't need at all * openSUSE:Portal_Template is useful for step 2 (not sure if it's ready yet) * Categorization Guidelines concerns proper categorization process. It's WIP in the English wiki (as there is a huge mess in this area), I don't know if an important work is required here in the DE wiki. * Translation Guidelines isn't required for localized wiki, as it covers opening of new localized wiki.

...

Also, may you be able to provide a Transition_list similar to the English instance for the German one? I guess you're in charge here and have the best insight of wiki seniors. Thanks in advance!

*[[Transition_List2]] covers Project/Distribution articles. Those articles might be already similar to the English articles. *[[Transition_List]] covers HowTo and user related articles. The hard work and most necessary focus for open-slx and contributors is here imho. Basically, the equivalent of a Transition_List for the German wiki can be found in http://de.opensuse.org/Dokumentation and subpages, with the exception of: * http://de.opensuse.org/Hardware (don't need a deep review process imho) * http://de.opensuse.org/Wunschlisten (replaced by openFATE, apart from /Dokumentationswunschliste which is still needed in the wiki) I was unable to find the German equivalent [[HOWTOs]] that I used to write [[Transition_List]] for the main wiki. Also, I am not sure if SBD should be reviewed in priority or not. It contains mostly obsolete articles in the English wiki, but I have no idea about its status in DE wiki. Moreover, input from experienced DE wiki maintainers is required for generating a list of most useful articles in the DE wiki - I don't know it as I don't use it - and my german capabilities are not so great :) I remember of the excellent translation work of Buschmann23(?), but I am not sure if he is still around. Additionally, you might have a look at the English list and see if the German equivalent exist/is better/should absolutely be translated. The page http://de.opensuse.org/Spezial:Beliebteste_Seiten might be very useful for this purpose too. Regards, R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Matthias Fehring

7 Jan 7 Jan

11:14

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Re: German Wiki

On Wednesday 06 January 2010 16:23:27 Rémy Marquis wrote:

...

I was unable to find the German equivalent [[HOWTOs]] that I used to write [[Transition_List]] for the main wiki. Also, I am not sure if SBD should be reviewed in priority or not. It contains mostly obsolete articles in the English wiki, but I have no idea about its status in DE wiki.

[[Anleitungen]] is intended to list the HOWTOs in the german wiki. Seems as if the interwiki links are missing there. To the SDB: In my opinion it is obsolete and it confuses people, because they are searching the wiki by default and not the SDB. In some articles there are links to the SDB.

...

Moreover, input from experienced DE wiki maintainers is required for generating a list of most useful articles in the DE wiki - I don't know it as I don't use it - and my german capabilities are not so great :) I remember of the excellent translation work of Buschmann23(?), but I am not sure if he is still around.

Yes, I am around. :) Currently my time for the wiki is limited, but I hope that situation will be better in the near future. I will do my best.

...

Regards,

R.

Best greetings Buschmann ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- openSUSE Member - de.opensuse.org Sys-Op http://en.opensuse.org/User:Buschmann23 http://en.opensuse.org/How_to_Participate http://en.opensuse.org/Geeko_wants_you!

Rupert Horstkötter

11:40

New subject: [opensuse-wiki] Re: German Wiki

Matthias, 2010/1/7 Matthias Fehring :

...

On Wednesday 06 January 2010 16:23:27 Rémy Marquis wrote:

...
I was unable to find the German equivalent [[HOWTOs]] that I used to write [[Transition_List]] for the main wiki. Also, I am not sure if SBD should be reviewed in priority or not. It contains mostly obsolete articles in the English wiki, but I have no idea about its status in DE wiki.

[[Anleitungen]] is intended to list the HOWTOs in the german wiki. Seems as if the interwiki links are missing there.

To the SDB: In my opinion it is obsolete and it confuses people, because they are searching the wiki by default and not the SDB. In some articles there are links to the SDB.

...
Moreover, input from experienced DE wiki maintainers is required for generating a list of most useful articles in the DE wiki - I don't know it as I don't use it - and my german capabilities are not so great :) I remember of the excellent translation work of Buschmann23(?), but I am not sure if he is still around.

Yes, I am around. :) Currently my time for the wiki is limited, but I hope that situation will be better in the near future. I will do my best.

Thanks for your fast reaction, this is much appreciated. May you please create a Transition_List for the German Wiki in co-work with Remy (in CC)? I guess with Remy's experience from the English Wiki and your particular knowledge about the German Wiki this should be solvable in no time. What we generally need is a list of most useful/important articles in the German Wiki similar to http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_List in order to empower open-slx employees and community contributors to get started with a similar reviewing effort like outlined at http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines#Step_1_:_Articles_review for the German Wiki. Any more/open questions here? Thanks in advance, R

...

...
Regards,

R.

Best greetings Buschmann

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- openSUSE Member - de.opensuse.org Sys-Op http://en.opensuse.org/User:Buschmann23 http://en.opensuse.org/How_to_Participate http://en.opensuse.org/Geeko_wants_you!

Henne Vogelsang

11 Jan 11 Jan

11:16

On 01/06/2010 12:31 PM, Rupert Horstkötter wrote: [...]

...

That said, we urgently need to consider this while implementing the Concept and put efforts into the parallel proceeding of the German instance while going forward with the English Wiki.

Why? We're not even half way there yet with the main wiki. We still miss a lot of stuff. And most of all we need more experience with the new instance. Why do we have to open a second front with language wikis now? We have everything to loose and nothing to gain. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

13:23

Henne, 2010/1/11 Henne Vogelsang :

...

On 01/06/2010 12:31 PM, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

[...]

...
That said, we urgently need to consider this while implementing the Concept and put efforts into the parallel proceeding of the German instance while going forward with the English Wiki.

Why? We're not even half way there yet with the main wiki. We still miss a lot of stuff. And most of all we need more experience with the new instance. Why do we have to open a second front with language wikis now? We have everything to loose and nothing to gain.

I haven't announced to go forward with all language wikis but to start just with the German one in parallel. The reason is, as outlined, that a major part of our users are located in Germany and thus I feel the German wiki just as important as the English one. I certainly won't stop with the English wiki though, this was never intended as there certainly still is a lot to do on this front. We as open-slx will drive this along with community support. So, no worries, there won't be diminished workforce with the efforts for the English wiki. Best, R

...

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:40

Hi, On 01/11/2010 02:23 PM, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...

2010/1/11 Henne Vogelsang :

...
On 01/06/2010 12:31 PM, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

[...]

...
That said, we urgently need to consider this while implementing the Concept and put efforts into the parallel proceeding of the German instance while going forward with the English Wiki.

Why? We're not even half way there yet with the main wiki. We still miss a lot of stuff. And most of all we need more experience with the new instance. Why do we have to open a second front with language wikis now? We have everything to loose and nothing to gain.

I haven't announced to go forward with all language wikis but to start just with the German one in parallel.

I never said that you are starting all language wikis. But you start one. Which means that there will be work to be done and decisions to be made for the infrastructure, the setup, conventions, content and so on and so on. Things we never discussed, things we don't have a plan for yet and things that have influence on the instance we currently work on. Just look at your first question, how the DNS entry should look like. To answer this we require a plan for a multilingual setup. We don't even have a finished and proven plan for the monolingual setup yet. No one doubts that the language wiki's, especially the active ones like German or French, are important. Its just way too early to open up that front imho. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

14:53

Henne, 2010/1/11 Henne Vogelsang :

...

Hi,

On 01/11/2010 02:23 PM, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...
2010/1/11 Henne Vogelsang :

...
On 01/06/2010 12:31 PM, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

[...]

...
That said, we urgently need to consider this while implementing the Concept and put efforts into the parallel proceeding of the German instance while going forward with the English Wiki.

Why? We're not even half way there yet with the main wiki. We still miss a lot of stuff. And most of all we need more experience with the new instance. Why do we have to open a second front with language wikis now? We have everything to loose and nothing to gain.

I haven't announced to go forward with all language wikis but to start just with the German one in parallel.

I never said that you are starting all language wikis. But you start one. Which means that there will be work to be done and decisions to be made for the infrastructure, the setup, conventions, content and so on and so on. Things we never discussed, things we don't have a plan for yet and things that have influence on the instance we currently work on.

The German setup will be done just like the English one from an infrastructure, setup, conventions and so on perspective, i.e. we implement the Usability concepts we invented for the English wiki just the same for the German one.

...

Just look at your first question, how the DNS entry should look like. To answer this we require a plan for a multilingual setup. We don't even have a finished and proven plan for the monolingual setup yet.

The plan is (for the English wiki) to populate wiki.o.o and switch wiki.o.o and en.o.o once we have that completed. For the German wiki we can do exactly the same at de.wiki.o.o and switch de.wiki.o.o with de.o.o - it's just parallelism .. we do not need to reinvent the wheel here.

...

No one doubts that the language wiki's, especially the active ones like German or French, are important. Its just way too early to open up that front imho.

German users make one third of openSUSE installations worldwide and are by far the biggest overall openSUSE user community. openSUSE Box customers are even 90% from Germany. That's the reason I announced the parallel proceeding of the German Wiki. Your implicit argument of workload-conflict imho doesn't hold here as we just utilize the work we already did and we, as open-slx, will do the major portion of the work anyway .. certainly supported by the openSUSE community (as we already do with the English transition btw) Best, R

...

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

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Clayton
Henne Vogelsang
Matthias Fehring
Rupert Horstkötter
Rémy Marquis