2010/2/17 Jon Rocker :

Well, then, let's announce it in the forum. I know once we do, we'll get a lot of use out of it. Both in postings, and users using the FlaggedRevs.

I think you got me wrong here. I don't want to put it into production use as we're far from that (yet) but test it team-internally (with forums and wiki teams). Best, R

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 01:27, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...

Team,

while this isn't particularly urgent currently, I'd like to bring this to the teams attention (especially Rajko, Remy, Jon, Henne). At some point in time we need to get going with starting the FlaggedRevs QA Wiki forum testing. I already had a phone call with Henne last week and we had the idea to create a testing namespace at wiki.o.o, fill it with some test content, create a test-subforum of the openSUSE wiki forum and let FlaggedRevs output some test-RSS feed in order to grab it with the Forums RSS posting bot. As this whole thing is an integral part of the overall usability concept, I'd like to ask about commitment of people to help here. At least the mentioned team members (Rajko as FlaggedRevs champion, Henne as wiki.o.o-master and Remy/Jon as Wiki forum Mods) would be required. May we sync for getting started with this please?

Additional things we need take care about in advance? ETA? I'll go along with whatever availability you may have to get started and I'll certainly take care of forums admin involvement to configure the posting bot (Kim is in CC:).

Testcase: 1. Create a draft rev 2. Hope for good FlaggedRevs RSS/Posting Bot interoperability 3. Flag the draft as sighted 4. create new draft rev besides the sighted one 5. Investigate behaviour of Posting bot (does he create a new thread/re-opens the existing one/config abilities we have here)

Thanks a lot, R -- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rajko, 2010/2/18 Rajko M. :

On Wednesday 17 February 2010 02:27:07 Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...

Team,

while this isn't particularly urgent currently,

I looked what kind of pages gives RSS, it is:  Recent changes - any article change  Related changes - any article mentioned in article  Page history - the History link and possibly some other pages that present reports.

Thanks for investigating this. Is it possible to get RSS: Recent changes just for certain namespaces (distro documentation)?

IMO, we should create guidelines that will encourage people to post links to pages that they want to be reviewed, not to feed automatically all changes. For all changes there is already wiki page Special:Recentchanges.

I don't think that encouraging people to post links to the forums (for review) would work out. See it like that: Who would use it? People knowledged about the wiki (Remy, you, Shayon, etc). How wouldn't use it? People we'd like to encourage to do so. You see the problem I'd like to raise your attention upon? That said, it already has been agreed to go for the QA as described (Forum/FlaggedRevs) and I'm not on the same page to start over now and put this in question (not before failing in testing) as it's an (if not the) integral part of our QA concept to get rid of the mess we previously had. The review process should be a requirement and not the desired road to get a "sighted/quality" flag. At least, while I see your concerns below, I'd like to test this before adjusting the concept/coming up with alternatives. IMO it's an investigation issue. We need to find out how this really behaves and what opportunities we have. This actually is the reason I ask for testing. As of spamming the forums: Certainly we need to configure this right (as said above, we wouldn't like to discourage contributors/proof-readers, I'm on the same page here) 1. Only article changes from interesting namespaces (distro documentation) should be posted 2. Already created threads for a certain article should be re-opened instead of creating a new thread. That all doesn't hinder people to ask questions in addition to the automatic QA process btw. Thomas Schmidt posted this http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2010-02/msg00083.html today to the list and as I read it, it could help us here. What do you think about it? I'll right now answer Thomas and point him to the discussion taking place here. Best, R

The same recommendation will apply for wiki editors, instead of reading pages and solving problems on their own, just post question, or request for help, with link in the forum and let people comment.

We have to make wiki closer to forum readers, but that will not happen by slamming forum with hundreds of threads that no one will have time to read, or only few will attract attention.

As what to publish right now we can ask forum to come with proposal.

-- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Team, somehow, we lost Kim Groneman (tech. Forums Admin) in CC:, thus I introduced him again and I'd like to ask everyone to use "Reply All" in order to keep him in the loop from now on. 2010/2/23 Thomas Schmidt :

I don't think it's possible with mediawiki, but hermes is able to do this now. If you are not familiar with hermes (the opensuse notification system), here is how to setup a feed or notifications for the wiki: - Go to https://hermes.opensuse.org/subscriptions -> 'New Subscription' - Select the type wiki change and your digest and delivery mode of choice - If you only want special changes, click on 'add filter', and filter for example for a namespace or a change_type

I can take the task to setup feeds for the namespaces Help:, openSUSE: ...? Just tell me what you need, we can also enhance the mediawiki hermes extension to include more stuff.

Greetings

Thomas/Rajko/Kim, actually, this is exactly what we're looking for in regard of the FlaggedRevs/Wiki Forum QA we need to establish. Iirc we need the Recent Changes from Main namespace at wiki.o.o (=distro documentation) only. We need Rajko to verify this though (he's master of namespaces). That said, as of testing I'd like to do the following: 1. Create Test namespace (production would be Main then) 2. Create subforum of the Wiki-forum (production would be Wiki forum itself then) 3. Create testpages at Test namespace 4. Configure Hermes to output Recent Changes from Test namespace only 5. Let forumsadmin autoposting bot grab the RSS and post it into before-mentioned subforum (see 2) Things to investigate here = desired behaviour (I explain this again): FlaggedRevs flags a certain page as draft initially. That should kick in forumsadmin RSS bot to post corresponding discussion thread at the subforum. Now, after discussing at the forums, the draft will be flagged as sighted and the thread at the forums will be closed. Then, a new draft may occur as an edit to the sighted page and forumsadmin should kick in again and re-open the existing discussion thread and so on and so forth. Flowchart: 1. New draft in Test namespace -> Hermes RSS -> forumsadmin posts thread 2. draft flagged as sighted + thread closed 3. New draft rev of the very same article in Test namespace -> Hermes -> forumsadmin re-opens existing thread 4. Completely new draft= new page in Test namespace -> Hermes -> forumsadmin posts completely new thread So, how to get started? Please, Thomas/Rajko/Kim, sit together and try this with the mentioned test environment. We may do this while having an IRC real-time meeting in parallel where you 3 and I may participate to make this easier. At first I'd like to have input from all parties about technical achievability (both Wiki/Hermes and Forums), then we need to find an appropriate date to get this tested. Once we switch wiki.o.o in production this should be adopted to Wiki forum itself and Main namespace, until then (for testing): Test namespace and testing-subforum. Any more question marks? Best, R

-- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) openSUSE Boosters Team "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 06:29:23 Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

1. Create Test namespace (production would be Main then)

There is nothing saint in a Main namespace, so it can be used as source of messages while we move/copy articles from en.o.o.

2. Create subforum of the Wiki-forum (production would be Wiki forum itself then)

IMO, subforum is good idea as permanent solution. I would like to have current Wiki Discussions, for ... well, discussions about wiki; just as name tells. Subforum can be Wiki Reviews, for instance. That way comments about wiki organization improvements will not get lost in pile of page change announcements and reviews.

3. Create testpages at Test namespace 4. Configure Hermes to output Recent Changes from Test namespace only

I mentioned in another post that FlaggedRevs have own output of pages that need review, and that gives only Main space RSS/Atom by default. Pages that never received any attention will be covered with output of another special page "new pages", that also has Main as default output to RSS/Atom. Those 2 outputs will cover all of the pages that need review. I guess that Tom can combine them in a single stream from Hermes.

5. Let forumsadmin autoposting bot grab the RSS and post it into before-mentioned subforum (see 2)

There is another idea how to announce wiki changes in forums that will create threads only when there is a real review (question, discussion, fix, ...), not only change on the wiki. Using single article that will be changed periodically, or as change happen. It should have small intro section that will explain what is article about and then give link to the article in the wiki in one column, and in the same row button to post a comment. Tricky part would be not to create new thread when one already exist. Kim is this possible? -- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 24 February 2010 14:36:07 Thomas Schmidt wrote:

On 02/24/2010 05:16 AM, Rajko M. wrote: ...

...

I mentioned in another post that FlaggedRevs have own output of pages that need review, and that gives only Main space RSS/Atom by default. Pages that never received any attention will be covered with output of another special page "new pages", that also has Main as default output to RSS/Atom.

Those 2 outputs will cover all of the pages that need review. I guess that Tom can combine them in a single stream from Hermes.

That might be possible, but I think it's easier to read those 2 feeds with the rss->forum bot. Aren't the new pages of the Main namespace included in the 'pages need review' feed?

No. That was the reason to look for another Special page that has missing pages in the first report. The other idea is to keep both reports separated, as old articles that have change are not as urgent as new articles that can be literally anything. Little mark at the top right that article is not reviewed is some help, but article is anyway presented to the wiki visitor. Below is link to both special pages for Kim. I used reply to mail list for the first post with this links, so it can be found in archives, but this way is easier: First is http://wiki.opensuse.org/Special:OldReviewedPages Second is http://wiki.opensuse.org/Special:NewPages

...

...

5. Let forumsadmin autoposting bot grab the RSS and post it into before-mentioned subforum (see 2)

Which software is this autoposting bot, do you have a url?

Kim? ... -- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

On 24.02.2010 02:35, Rajko M. wrote:

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:11:08 Thomas Schmidt wrote:

...

I can take the task to setup feeds for the namespaces Help:, openSUSE: ...? Just tell me what you need, we can also enhance the mediawiki hermes extension to include more stuff.

There is probably better way then to scrap info from Special:RecentChanges . There are pages that are already set up to give output.

First is http://wiki.opensuse.org/Special:OldReviewedPages The page explains itself as "List reviewed pages with revisions pending review" and it has RSS/Atom feeds.

Sounds exactly like the feed the forums need to pull.

Second is http://wiki.opensuse.org/Special:NewPages which also has RSS/Atom feed.

Both default to Main namespace, which is the one without prefix.

Apropos namespaces: The namespace has to be configured. All that I know can be found here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace

Colon in the title is allowed, but MediaWiki will consider that as normal article in some of already configured namespaces.

Currently we have the custom namespaces: 'SDB', 'SDB_Talk', 'Portal', 'Portal_Talk', 'Archive', 'Archive_Talk'; And a MetaNamespace 'openSUSE'. What is the difference here to a normal namespace? with flaggedrevs enabled for: NS_MAIN, NS_IMAGE, NS_TEMPLATE, SDB, Portal Do we need more?

Using http://wiki.opensuse.org/Special:AllPages you can see that Test:FlaggedRevstest/xx is listed in the Main ns, Tools:Openfate is listed in openSUSE ns. Some wiki software creates namespaces on the go, just use colon in the title and voila, there is a namespace, but MediaWiki is conservative, allowing authors to use colon as part of the article title. There are some titles that need colon without special meaning to be accurate.

I created this page testing and playing around with the namespaces. Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org