[opensuse] kde devs - What is the plan for the control panel (system settings)? It is a mess in 4.4 beta
Devs, Where is the system setting layout going? All I can do is shake my head and wonder WTF were the devs thinking??? In K3, you could change your style, window decoration and theme all logically placed under the "Appearance" section. Makes sense since they all relate to appearance. Up through 4.3 you set style and window decor under 'Appearance', have to rt-click the desktop to change the theme (because theme setting are not available in the control panel), and then go to 'Advance User Settings to change the details of the theme, but then leave details and go rt-click the desktop again to activate changes. Was somebody dropping acid when they came up with that?? Now in 44beta they have tried to bring the theme into the control panel, but have hidden it behind the second tab under style so to modify the theme you have to go the Advance user settings, (a complete different top-level section of the CP), change the them details, then you can't activate the theme settings there, you have to navigate back to Appearance -> Style -> 2nd Tab to activate the theme, and then to export the theme you have to go back to Advance User Settings -> Desktop Theme Details -> 'more' then export. WTF?? Wouldn't it have made more sense to put the desktop theme choice and activation as the 2nd tab under Advance User Setting -> Desktop Theme Details. Or, better yet, move the whole Advance User Setting -> Desktop Theme Details to tab 3 under Appearance -> Style right behind tab 2 where you choose the style? What's the deal with this stuff? Why to we have to hopscotch all over the panel to setup a theme? Next why is EVERYTHING being moved to advance user settings now. All other sections of the control panel are disappearing while the advanced user settings has grown into a mess of unrelated items? Why is it such a mess? This isn't a bitch or gripe, I truly want to know whether we are in some 'transition state' where it is understood things are going to look awkward for a while in system setting until things get put in there final place, or is that basically the 'final' state of system settings where it looks like things were just place willy-nilly in different areas because nobody has a plan for where they should go? What gives? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 08/02/10 16:00, David C. Rankin wrote:
Devs,
Where is the system setting layout going? All I can do is shake my head and wonder WTF were the devs thinking???
In K3, you could change your style, window decoration and theme all logically placed under the "Appearance" section. Makes sense since they all relate to appearance.
Oh, David, you just simply do not understand the KDE Development model - sorry to say. This is from the KDE Development site: QUOTE *KDE P*hilosophy and Core Tenets * Get it done NOW! * Focus! * Use available tools rather than re-inventing existing ones! * When making a suggestion, change "we should.." to "I will.."; grandiose plans are useless unless you are willing to put in the work. * Improve iteratively. * Start with reasonable functionality and then improve over time. Unquote (source: http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/devmodel.php) Sigh...but you are just asking too many (awkward - and sensible, which are frowned upon) questions..... :'( [pruned]
This isn't a bitch or gripe,
Of course not. But then, why *isn't* it "a bitch or gripe"? It's not (as yet?) disallowed to publicly express a complaint/question/opposite point of view?
I truly want to know whether we are in some 'transition state' where it is understood things are going to look awkward for a while in system setting until things get put in there final place, or is that basically the 'final' state of system settings where it looks like things were just place willy-nilly in different areas because nobody has a plan for where they should go? What gives?
The only additional comment I can make to your post is that your "isn't a bitch or gripe" post should have been posted in the opensuse-kde mail list where the naughty-type "KDE devs" actually lurk :-) . BC -- "Will the highways of the internet become more few?" George W Bush -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 08 Feb 2010 06:55:20 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 08/02/10 16:00, David C. Rankin wrote:
Devs,
Where is the system setting layout going? All I can do is shake my head and wonder WTF were the devs thinking???
In K3, you could change your style, window decoration and theme all logically placed under the "Appearance" section. Makes sense since they all relate to appearance.
Oh, David, you just simply do not understand the KDE Development model - sorry to say.
This is from the KDE Development site:
QUOTE
*KDE P*hilosophy and Core Tenets
* Get it done NOW! If now is as long as it can be drawn out !
* Focus!
Complete lack of ( an absolute must)!
* Use available tools rather than re-inventing existing ones!
But write the available tools first the fritz them up completely !
* When making a suggestion, change "we should.." to "I will..";
When can be bothered to even look at things !
grandiose plans are useless unless you are willing to put in the work. * Improve iteratively.
Yea for sure!
* Start with reasonable functionality and then improve over time.
Start by completely Fritzing everything then claim it was like that before i started guv honest , Then make it look pretty and claim a Huge success out of the exercise !!
Unquote
The only additional comment I can make to your post is that your "isn't a bitch or gripe" post should have been posted in the opensuse-kde mail list where the naughty-type "KDE devs" actually lurk :-) .
Thanks for the heads-up i know where to go barrack them now :-) ..
BC
Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 08:08 up 15 days 22:50, 2 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00
On 02/08/2010 12:55 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Oh, David, you just simply do not understand the KDE Development model - sorry to say.
This is from the KDE Development site:
QUOTE
*KDE P*hilosophy and Core Tenets
* Get it done NOW! * Focus! * Use available tools rather than re-inventing existing ones! * When making a suggestion, change "we should.." to "I will.."; grandiose plans are useless unless you are willing to put in the work. * Improve iteratively. * Start with reasonable functionality and then improve over time.
Unquote
BC, I guess you are right, I must not understand :-( Because it sounds to me like the philosophy is really, "Oh, shit! There is no plan, stick it where it will fit even if it quadruples the number of clicks required to get it done, go ahead... move it from where it was designed to go just to get it working, if we don't get something working out quick, then the cat's out of the bag and the users will figure out that we haven't really haven't had a plan since some idiot release 4.04 as a final release when it was really pre-alpha in June 2008 and we have been robbing Peter to pay Paul to get a justified 4.1 out the door ever since, but we bought some time by changing the release numbers so quickly the community really thought it was getting something other than the beta releases leading up to where we are today. They won't all stay in the dark forever, so hurry damnit! We are understaffed, over loaded, and have an enterprise size code-base to bring together on duct-tape and bailing wire resources. All of this would have worked out fine if you had just been honest with the community in 2008 and said, 'It ain't ready yet', but no... somebody had to go stick the uncaged tiger in the ass with a cattle-prod and just look were that has put us today! I'm so tired of suturing up claw marks from that damned old pissed cat, I've had it --- I QUIT!" I see what your saying, thanks! :p -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 02/10/2010 11:33 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 02/08/2010 12:55 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Oh, David, you just simply do not understand the KDE Development model - sorry to say.
This is from the KDE Development site:
QUOTE
*KDE P*hilosophy and Core Tenets
* Get it done NOW! * Focus! * Use available tools rather than re-inventing existing ones! * When making a suggestion, change "we should.." to "I will.."; grandiose plans are useless unless you are willing to put in the work. * Improve iteratively. * Start with reasonable functionality and then improve over time.
Unquote
BC,
I guess you are right, I must not understand :-(
Because it sounds to me like the philosophy is really, "Oh, shit! There is no plan, stick it where it will fit even if it quadruples the number of clicks required to get it done, go ahead... move it from where it was designed to go just to get it working, if we don't get something working out quick, then the cat's out of the bag and the users will figure out that we haven't really haven't had a plan since some idiot release 4.04 as a final release when it was really pre-alpha in June 2008 and we have been robbing Peter to pay Paul to get a justified 4.1 out the door ever since, but we bought some time by changing the release numbers so quickly the community really thought it was getting something other than the beta releases leading up to where we are today. They won't all stay in the dark forever, so hurry damnit! We are understaffed, over loaded, and have an enterprise size code-base to bring together on duct-tape and bailing wire resources. All of this would have worked out fine if you had just been honest with the community in 2008 and said, 'It ain't ready yet', but no... somebody had to go stick the uncaged tiger in the ass with a cattle-prod and just look were that has put us today! I'm so tired of suturing up claw marks from that damned old pissed cat, I've had it --- I QUIT!"
I see what your saying, thanks! :p
BTW - One the same topic, 4.4.00 is out today and it looks pretty good! There is still no way to set the color of the system monitor widgets (CPU, Network, etc..) that regressed at 4.3.9X, but on balance it works really well. The new "Add Widget" slider at the bottom now slides and you can drag/drop your widget to the desktp or kicker. I guess somebody got the cat back in the cage for the time being ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* David C. Rankin
I guess somebody got the cat back in the cage for the time being ;-)
Careful now, not tooo much sirup; tomorrow you will find something and again make effort to convince the world that the sky is falling! It would be a good time to tell the developers that you really did not mean all the negative things previously posted. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
"Oh, shit! There is no plan, stick it where it will fit even if it quadruples the number of clicks required to get it done, go ahead... move it from where it was designed to go just to get it working, if we don't get something working out quick, then the cat's out of the bag and the users will figure out that we haven't really haven't had a plan since some idiot release 4.04 as a final release when it was really pre-alpha in June 2008 and we have been robbing Peter to pay Paul to get a justified 4.1 out the door ever since, but we bought some time by changing the release numbers so quickly the community really thought it was getting something other than the beta releases leading up to where we are today. They won't all stay in the dark forever, so hurry damnit! We are understaffed, over loaded, and have an enterprise size code-base to bring together on duct-tape and bailing wire resources.
Hmmm that sounds EXACTLY like the usual software development cycle in just about every company I've worked in, in the past 15 years... and in almost all instances we were developing high end commercial software that was going into equipment worth 10's of millions of dollars/euros. :-P In other words... KDE development isn't a lot different than commercial software development cycles. That said, KDE4.4.0 is working quite nicely for me so far. No real serious complaints outside of the known regressions/bugs that are already reported (so far). :-) C -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 02/10/2010 12:41 PM, Clayton wrote:
Hmmm that sounds EXACTLY like the usual software development cycle in just about every company I've worked in, in the past 15 years... and in almost all instances we were developing high end commercial software that was going into equipment worth 10's of millions of dollars/euros. :-P In other words... KDE development isn't a lot different than commercial software development cycles.
That said, KDE4.4.0 is working quite nicely for me so far. No real serious complaints outside of the known regressions/bugs that are already reported (so far). :-)
C
Yes, That was more commiseration and satire than complaint or whine. We all know and understand the man-power, man-hour reality facing the devs. The code is progressing and all involved deserve our thanks and help. So go through 4.4 with a 'fine-toothed-comb' and get your bug reports in. Don't rely on the next person to file it, they probably won't. Hopefully/Realistically by 2011, the kde4 interface will be fairly settled, the remainder of the features will have been coded and the bug/feature resolution will be well underway. (However, that doesn't mean that along the way we can't all enjoy pointing out the obvious with a bit of satirical humor and commiserating from time to time ;-) (15k) ~hr later http://www.3111skyline.com/download/dt/kde4/ss/virtuoso-cnv-nepomuk-svc-1hrl... p.s. the thunderbird option for line wrapping is now under advance->config editor. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Basil Chupin -
Clayton -
David C. Rankin -
Patrick Shanahan -
Peter Nikolic