Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

Shriramana Sharma

30 Sep 2005 30 Sep '05

07:58

I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/ Will the experts please take a look at it and tell us whether it can be integrated into SUSE 10 (or maybe 10.1 if the 10.0 tree is already frozen)? Thanks.

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Marcus Meissner

30 Sep 30 Sep

08:00

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 01:28:42PM +0530, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...

I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

Will the experts please take a look at it and tell us whether it can be integrated into SUSE 10 (or maybe 10.1 if the 10.0 tree is already frozen)?

Its just ndiswrapper for filesystems. Since you need the Microsoft drivers for it we won't be able to ship it I guess. Ciao, Marcus

Martin Sommer

08:06

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

We have a redistribution agreement with Adobe and one with SUN but none with Microsoft. Martin On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...

On 9/30/05, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
Since you need the Microsoft drivers for it we won't be able to ship it I guess.

You can distribute Adobe Reader and Sun Java but not an MS DLL?

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Shriramana Sharma

08:07

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

On 9/30/05, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

Since you need the Microsoft drivers for it we won't be able to ship it I guess.

You can distribute Adobe Reader and Sun Java but not an MS DLL?

Shriramana Sharma

08:17

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

On 9/30/05, Martin Sommer wrote:

...

We have a redistribution agreement with Adobe and one with SUN but none with Microsoft.

I daresay one such agreement is unlikely to form, what?

Martin Sommer

08:18

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...

On 9/30/05, Martin Sommer wrote:

...
We have a redistribution agreement with Adobe and one with SUN but none with Microsoft.

I daresay one such agreement is unlikely to form, what?

At the moment I would say it's quite unlikely. -- Dr. Martin Sommer Product Manager Consumer Products SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, D-90409 Nürnberg Phone: +49 (0) 911 740 530 Fax: +49 (0) 911 740 53 575 Email: martin.sommer@suse.com ----------------------------------------------------------

jdd

10:09

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...

I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

I could never make it work... jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger

10:54

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

Shriramana Sharma schrieb:

...

I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

Will the experts please take a look at it and tell us whether it can be integrated into SUSE 10 (or maybe 10.1 if the 10.0 tree is already frozen)?

You do not want to use captive ntfs. It may work for some people, but trusting a driver written for a different operating system with different kernel stack size, compiled with a different compiler, no source available to debug, etc. is nothing I would do on any of my systems. Regards, Carl-Daniel

pmoellon

11:05

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

jdd wrote:

...

Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...
I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

I could never make it work...

jdd

i read somewhere that MS built the NTFS filesystem to be "hack-proof" during around 20 years. Somehow, by design, it would be for them to have some kind of "patent", as i guess they have that duration in the common "mode" In fact, i could always mount, or define in fstab, ntfs partitions in read-only mode. For some "cross-platform" share (music DB, files to be transfered, etc.), i use fat32 partitions. No Reiser 'cause Windoze would not see it. But using the ntfs.sys file in a wine is sure a technique worth to try... I'll try it when i can. If someone achieves this, it means that "NFTS is done :-) Not reading Reisers, Ext2, Ext3.. but reading NTFS... and writing to it... very cool! :-)) 20 years have gone so fast ;-)

Shriramana Sharma

12:37

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

On 9/30/05, pmoellon wrote:

...

some kind of "patent", as i guess they have that duration in the common "mode"

I don't understand this.

...

No Reiser 'cause Windoze would not see it. But using the ntfs.sys file in a wine is sure a technique worth to try... I'll try it when i can. If someone achieves this, it means that "NFTS is done :-) Not reading Reisers, Ext2, Ext3.. but reading NTFS... and writing to it... very cool! :-)) 20 years have gone so fast ;-)

I'm not sure what pmoellon is trying to say with the above sentences. Is s/he being sarcastic at MS? Does s/he not use Reiser or Ext on his/her Linux system? Is it really possible to use only FAT and actually run a Linux system?

pmoellon

13:13

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

jdd wrote:

...

Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...
I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

I could never make it work...

jdd

Just tested, and it works :-) In short: get and install the rpm from the above site. (captive-static-1.1.5-0.i386.rpm http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/dist/captive-static-1.1.5-0.i38... - not tested the tar.gz one) Then as root, run the command: captive-install-acquire which will try to find the *proprietary* drivers needed (ntfs.sys and ntoskrnl.exe being the 2 more important) They should be copied here: */var/lib/captive/* (http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/man/captive.pod.html, "OPTIONS") As the search was taking some time, I did use directly the drivers in the Windows partition; better: no proprietary driver would be copied in Lin. ** So, using the following command, i was able to read &WRITE to my hda1 partition (NFTS partition on a dual boot box): captive-cmdline --disk --rw --filesystem=/windows/C/WINDOWS/ServicePackFiles/i386/ntfs.sys --load-module=/windows/C/WINDOWS/ServicePackFiles/i386/ntoskrnl.exe /dev/hda1 Where /windows/C is the way "C:" is defined (or i defined?.?) in fstab Where the --filesystem and --load-module paths are the location of ntfs.sys and ntoskrnl.sys (note that this could be in the Windows dir, but as Service Pack have them, it was better to use these alternate files just in case of... The windows defaults are WINDOWS/system32/ntoskrnl.exe and WINDOWS/system32/drivers/ntfs.sys) And where /dev/hda1 is the ntfs partition to be read...and WRITTEN!! quote: You do not want to use captive ntfs. It may work for some people, but trusting a driver written for a different operating system with different kernel stack size, compiled with a different compiler, no source available to debug, etc. is nothing I would do on any of my systems. Carl-Daniel Yes, that's a risk, and surelly should be avoided. Anyway, it can be on occasion a great ressource. So we can *finally* write a NTFS partition. But using what Carl-Daniel reminds us... Thus the real "hack" of the NTFS writing has not been done yet. Whatever happens, wish it won't last 20 years. But for now, i think it can be pretty handy for us susers. Cheers, Patrick M.

pmoellon

13:26

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...

On 9/30/05, pmoellon wrote:

...
some kind of "patent", as i guess they have that duration in the common "mode"

I don't understand this.

...
No Reiser 'cause Windoze would not see it. But using the ntfs.sys file in a wine is sure a technique worth to try... I'll try it when i can. If someone achieves this, it means that "NFTS is done :-) Not reading Reisers, Ext2, Ext3.. but reading NTFS... and writing to it... very cool! :-)) 20 years have gone so fast ;-)

I'm not sure what pmoellon is trying to say with the above sentences. Is s/he being sarcastic at MS? Does s/he not use Reiser or Ext on his/her Linux system? Is it really possible to use only FAT and actually run a Linux system?

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Hi Shriramana :-) about the 20 years, what i meant is the following: i read that MS did put energy on building their NTFS filesystem for being "unbreakable" for keeping proprietary right during some time, not like FAT(16,32) (vfat). They made it, according to what i read, unbreakable with an estimative time of 20 years, for the OSS community (not only?) to be excleuded of reverse-engineering it to know how it works. The comparison to a patent is that as far as i know, a patent is valid for 20 years. So, by technology implementation, they would have a FS that would last like a patent, grosso modo. quote: Not reading Reisers, Ext2, Ext3.. but reading NTFS... and writing to it... very cool! :-)) 20 years have gone so fast ;-) I'm not sure what pmoellon is trying to say with the above sentences. Is s/he being sarcastic at MS? Does s/he not use Reiser or Ext on his/her Linux system? Is it really possible to use only FAT and actually run a Linux system? It not a question of sarcasm, it's for what we all work for: OSS. So having access to the MS standard FS, it is of great importance as many boxes still use NTFS. About my SUSE boxes: of course they run ReiserFS!! (Excepet for the swap) It could be Ext3, but surely not FAT... Cheers, Patrick

jdd

14:27

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

pmoellon wrote:

...

jdd wrote:

...
Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...
I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

I could never make it work...

jdd

Just tested, and it works :-)

it was at least 6 month ago, they may have worked it :-) at that time I had a dual boot system for video editing, and could not find any file system able to share 12Gb (one hour DV video) between windows and Linux. I gave up... and keep win. now I share by samba, but it takes hours to copy :-( jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

jdd

14:30

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

pmoellon wrote:

...

i read that MS did put energy on building their NTFS filesystem for being "unbreakable" for keeping proprietary right during some time, not like FAT(16,32) (vfat). They made it, according to what i read, unbreakable with an estimative time of 20 years, for the OSS community (not only?) to be excleuded of reverse-engineering it to know how it works.

given the way windows is programmed, not surprising reverse engineering is long, no matter what BG say :-) I did once reverse eng on a bad written gwbasic programm and it took me a week to rewrite two pages of code :-(goto..goto..goto...goto... never gosub nor return :-) jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

pmoellon

14:59

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

jdd wrote:

...

pmoellon wrote:

...
jdd wrote:

...
Shriramana Sharma wrote:

...
I was wondering why it is often said that NTFS support on Linux is incomplete when there exists this package: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/

I could never make it work...

jdd

Just tested, and it works :-)

it was at least 6 month ago, they may have worked it :-)

at that time I had a dual boot system for video editing, and could not find any file system able to share 12Gb (one hour DV video) between windows and Linux. I gave up... and keep win.

now I share by samba, but it takes hours to copy :-(

jdd

hi jdd, i had quite the same situation, but it was music. Samba shares work, but, compared to a direct "R/W", they last for long, yes (at current home network speeds) Didn't want to lose win 'cause of music producing soft, but to be reworked in SUSE. And i had no problems having a FAT32 of more than 12GB (actually it has about 50GB). But FAT32 uses much space (clusters..), and has "no" security. While with the link (the captive), it can be an occasional way to *write* to a NTFS "needed" by specific soft (movie, music, whatever) (overwrite last movies changes, for you, for example) So that way you keep Win, but can keep Lin too :-) Cheers, Patrick M.

jdd

17:08

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

pmoellon wrote:

...

Didn't want to lose win 'cause of music producing soft, but to be reworked in SUSE. And i had no problems having a FAT32 of more than 12GB (actually it has about 50GB).

yes but on fat 32 files can't excess 4Gb

...

While with the link (the captive), it can be an occasional way to *write* to a NTFS "needed" by specific soft (movie, music, whatever) (overwrite last movies changes, for you, for example)

I say I think already windows crashes much too often, I wont try to use a windows driver from linux, my heart wont resist :-) a day or so I will buy gigabyte net cards, they are really cheap nowaday jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

Marcel Mourguiart

17:40

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

2005/9/30, jdd :

...

pmoellon wrote:

...
Didn't want to lose win 'cause of music producing soft, but to be reworked in SUSE. And i had no problems having a FAT32 of more than 12GB (actually it has about 50GB).

yes but on fat 32 files can't excess 4Gb

...
While with the link (the captive), it can be an occasional way to *write* to a NTFS "needed" by specific soft (movie, music, whatever) (overwrite last movies changes, for you, for example)

I say I think already windows crashes much too often, I wont try to use a windows driver from linux, my heart wont resist :-)

But that should be a decision the every customer of SUSE or OSS should take by it self. Why we should not include the program ? Is has not the proprietary driver included, is just another tool that maybe some one could fine use full. -- Marcel Mourguiart

jdd

17:50

New subject: [opensuse] Package Suggestion: Free NTFS read/write filesystem for GNU/Linux

Marcel Mourguiart wrote:

...

Why we should not include the program ?

I never said so... jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

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Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
jdd
Marcel Mourguiart
Marcus Meissner
Martin Sommer
pmoellon
Shriramana Sharma