Hello, everyone. I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ? Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this... Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC." Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux." Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself. And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ? Let the battle commence... Stuart.
This is a very clear sign that M$ is worried and getting desparate. Since they can't stop OEMs from put alt-OSes on their products they are now targeting the purchasers in order to muscle and threaten them. And as the article stated, any company or corporation that buys a lot of comps without an m$ product is likely headed for an audit. This may very likely backfire because if an OEM reports such purchases they will most likely loose clientele, therefore OEMs may want to think this out. The fact that M$ is trying to turn the OEMs into policemen is, to say the least, questionable. I can't see any prudent OEM subscribing to this because of the potential lost customer base and getting involved in the internal affairs between M$ and the company that bought the computers. -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Powell [mailto:stuart@yorkshirepudding.com] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 2022 To: SuSE Linux List Subject: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question Hello, everyone. I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ? Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this... Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC." Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux." Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself. And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ? Let the battle commence... Stuart. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
On Monday 30 April 2001 09:22 pm, Stuart Powell wrote:
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
Personally, I wish Microsoft luck in it's persuit of customer bullying. I want them to bully the hell out of everyone. I wish them the best success in coming up with a 100% uncrackable copyright protection scheme on their OS. <WHISTLING TONE=INNOCENTLY> Just means more people will be using Linux. -Steven
On Monday 30 April 2001 09:22 pm, Stuart Powell wrote:
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
My advise: "Sod off until you get a court order!" The bsa has been known to bully them selves into office buildings as if they where the police. But first of all they are nothing and second, even the police need the approval from a judge to enter a building and do a house search. And for that they need proof that there is "reason to suspect" any wrong doings. That is unless they saw you run into the building while pointing a gun at them. But in your case, since you did not buy (or maybe own) an MS product you are not bound by their recent license terms which state that you must account for all installed MS software just because they ask you to. Don't worry about it. If you do good nobody can touch you. BB, Arjen
They can send the PC police over, however, without a search warrant,
you don't have to let them in. If they can convince a judge of
probable cause, then they can get a search warrant. It is doubtful
that they will pursue this for a petty theft charge (1 Window
license). Now if there is a dozen or a hundred computers, it's grand
theft and now you are talking real money.
IANAL,
Jeffrey
Quoting Stuart Powell
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
-- I don't do Windows and I don't come to work before nine. -- Johnny Paycheck
Absolutely. No doubt they're going to go after the big offenders... first.
Once they've taken care of that, then they may filter down to home users.
Most of the people at risk are the ones who don't realise that OEM licences
do not transfer between machines. Just because you have Windows on your old
Packard Bell does not give you carte blanche to put it on a new machine from
the likes of Gateway and Dell, but it saves you some money when you're
working out the online quote.
Will this ignorance be enough to save Billy Homeuser from himself ?
Stuart.
-----Original Message-----
From:
suse-linux-e-return-55829-stuart=yorkshirepudding.com@lists.suse.com
[mailto:suse-linux-e-return-55829-stuart=yorkshirepudding.com@lists.suse
.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:53 PM
To: SuSE Linux List
Subject: Re: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question
They can send the PC police over, however, without a search warrant,
you don't have to let them in. If they can convince a judge of
probable cause, then they can get a search warrant. It is doubtful
that they will pursue this for a petty theft charge (1 Window
license). Now if there is a dozen or a hundred computers, it's grand
theft and now you are talking real money.
IANAL,
Jeffrey
Quoting Stuart Powell
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Ya, but what about the windows disk bought independently of a computer - the
boxed copy. As long as it's one the only computer I'm using then there's
not a damn thing they can do about it. Beside, my dad was a cop in San
Diego for over 30 years and I can see his reaction (snickering profusely)
when he sees a warrent to search for of confiscate a computer for
misdemeanor possession of two computers with on Microsoft lincensed cd
installed on a second computer. And let's not even start with the judges
and the DA's opinion of clogging up the court dockets with end-user
violation for putting a copy of what they thought was their own personal
Window 98/Me cd on their second computer. Talk about Linux and Mac
converts! This may be the best thing we could have hoped for. Why put so
much effort into trying to convince people that Windows is a overprice piece
of crap and that other OSes are more stable? Microsoft will be sending them
over in droves if they push it to the extreme.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Powell [mailto:stuart@yorkshirepudding.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 2312
To: Jeffrey Taylor; SuSE Linux List
Subject: RE: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question
Absolutely. No doubt they're going to go after the big offenders... first.
Once they've taken care of that, then they may filter down to home users.
Most of the people at risk are the ones who don't realise that OEM licences
do not transfer between machines. Just because you have Windows on your old
Packard Bell does not give you carte blanche to put it on a new machine from
the likes of Gateway and Dell, but it saves you some money when you're
working out the online quote.
Will this ignorance be enough to save Billy Homeuser from himself ?
Stuart.
-----Original Message-----
From:
suse-linux-e-return-55829-stuart=yorkshirepudding.com@lists.suse.com
[mailto:suse-linux-e-return-55829-stuart=yorkshirepudding.com@lists.suse
.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:53 PM
To: SuSE Linux List
Subject: Re: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question
They can send the PC police over, however, without a search warrant,
you don't have to let them in. If they can convince a judge of
probable cause, then they can get a search warrant. It is doubtful
that they will pursue this for a petty theft charge (1 Window
license). Now if there is a dozen or a hundred computers, it's grand
theft and now you are talking real money.
IANAL,
Jeffrey
Quoting Stuart Powell
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
At 10:52 PM 4/30/2001 -0500, Jeffrey Taylor wrote:
They can send the PC police over, however, without a search warrant, you don't have to let them in. If they can convince a judge of probable cause, then they can get a search warrant. It is doubtful that they will pursue this for a petty theft charge (1 Window license). Now if there is a dozen or a hundred computers, it's grand theft and now you are talking real money.
Yehp , now if you have linux on all those machines and no mickysoft , you could be in for some money besides your legal fees. If they \get cought with nothing several times , that will realy blow there credibility big time.
IANAL, Jeffrey
Quoting Stuart Powell
: Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
-- I don't do Windows and I don't come to work before nine. -- Johnny Paycheck
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Yesterday, Apr 30, Stuart Powell wrote:
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
I saw this one yesterday too. I think the funniest part of the whole thing is the absolutely ridiculous "prizes". Considering they are only targeting consumers buying 250+ PC's per quote, we're dealing with the larger PC shops, such as Gateway, Dell, etc. (possibly other clone shops, but doubtful). My question is this: What the hell is some sales manager at Dell going to want with 5 M$ games?! Do they really think that the cost of 5 stupid games is greater than the revenues generated by a major customer, that they would most certainly lose if they found out they were "turned in" to the M$ license police? This is definitely a new low for even Micro$oft.. Ken -- "We can build a better operating system than Linux" --Microsoft VP Jim Allchin
There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos. The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy? Just wondered. Eddie On Tuesday 01 May 2001 02:22, Stuart Powell wrote:
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos. The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy?
Just wondered.
Eddie
On Tuesday 01 May 2001 02:22, Stuart Powell wrote:
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC
(http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows
for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner
Hi Eddie.
Did you get Simply to write this policy down, or was it just done on the
phone? It
would be interesting to see it justified in writing.
I think if a few folks email them to say that we're aware that MS is
pressurising
hardware vendors not to sell boxes without an OS, but that plenty of people
want a
comp. to put Linux on, this should get a result. Or, like the man said, buy
elsewhere.
I have found it no cheaper, but generally more satisfactory to build
machines for Linux,
that way you've got some control over the motherboard and other
low-visibility elements
of the package like the case and power supply as well as RAM, disks and so
on, and
you can pick directly from the hardware compatibility lists.
In broader terms, I'm a bit surprised this sort of restrictive practice
isn't illegal. When they
say 'you must have an OS', I suppose they mean 'you must buy an MS OS.'
However
you slice it, this is very naughty and scarcely conducive to the healthy
free-market competition
men like Gates are always droning on about in justifying the present
economic setup.
Maybe a few emails to people like Charlie Stross at Computer shopper, too -
may do it
if I get time
Cheers
Fergus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie Howson"
will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos. The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy?
Just wondered.
Eddie
On Tuesday 01 May 2001 02:22, Stuart Powell wrote:
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC
(http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows
for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner
I never buy off the rack. I have owned 2 computers in my life and bought
the first from a friend. That first had 3 different mobos, 3 different vid
cards, 2 different sound cards and, a replacement HDD. My 2nd comp was
built from the ground up. Abit mobo, Celeron 500, voodoo3 vid card replaced
with GF2-MX, same sound card, same hdd with 2nd added, new nic, new case,
cdrom, etc.... I have always felt it better to do this so as to avoid
running into the catch of having to also purchase an OEM version of an OS
(typically Winblows).
I already had a copy of W98 and the SE update CD and a couple version of
Linux. Even if I bought an OEM comp (say...Dell) I would strip off the Dell
OEM version and replace it with mine, especially true if you run a dual-boot
config. Not only is
M$ trying to get me to pay for the OS twice, but the OEM versions are
generally "restore" disks that wipe out/reformat the drive. If one wishes
to correct or replace a file and only has a restore disk - well all the old
data and programs generally get wiped. And if you have a dual-boot sys this
can be a real pain (so I've been told). The best way to send a message to
vendors that you bought from in the past is to write them that you no longer
intend to patronize their business due to constraints of the sales/product
policies. If the company gets enough information the its customer base is
declining due to the fact that they are forcing unwanted product options on
their clientele, then if they're smart they'll change. They only understand
it when it hits them in the wallet.
-----Original Message-----
From: Fergus Wilde [mailto:fwilde@chethams.org.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 0810
To: Eddie Howson
Cc: SuSE list
Subject: Re: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question
Hi Eddie.
Did you get Simply to write this policy down, or was it just done on the
phone? It
would be interesting to see it justified in writing.
I think if a few folks email them to say that we're aware that MS is
pressurising
hardware vendors not to sell boxes without an OS, but that plenty of people
want a
comp. to put Linux on, this should get a result. Or, like the man said, buy
elsewhere.
I have found it no cheaper, but generally more satisfactory to build
machines for Linux,
that way you've got some control over the motherboard and other
low-visibility elements
of the package like the case and power supply as well as RAM, disks and so
on, and
you can pick directly from the hardware compatibility lists.
In broader terms, I'm a bit surprised this sort of restrictive practice
isn't illegal. When they
say 'you must have an OS', I suppose they mean 'you must buy an MS OS.'
However
you slice it, this is very naughty and scarcely conducive to the healthy
free-market competition
men like Gates are always droning on about in justifying the present
economic setup.
Maybe a few emails to people like Charlie Stross at Computer shopper, too -
may do it
if I get time
Cheers
Fergus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie Howson"
will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
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I guess most of you know this one: http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/computing/man-from-ms.html
On Wednesday 02 May 2001 13:16, Francesco Scaglioni wrote:
I guess most of you know this one:
No, Ididn't. Yes, I do. Thanks. Terence
In article <0105021244250F.00665@gladys>, Eddie Howson
There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos.
Except Caldera, Corel, SuSE and Red Hat.
The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy?
I've told Simply about this. You can buy the machine and then refuse the MS license (note the part where it says you can contact your supplier for a refund). Simply is my supplier of choice for quite a lot of kit. I've bought systems from them with Red Hat installed. -- Bernard Peek IT Manager, POSTAR Ltd. 27 Sale Place, London, W2 1YR. (020 7479 9702) Bernard@postar.co.uk
Take your money elswhere. At 12:44 PM 5/2/2001 +0100, Eddie Howson wrote:
There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos. The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy?
Just wondered.
Eddie
On Tuesday 01 May 2001 02:22, Stuart Powell wrote:
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html
This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?
Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...
Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."
Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."
Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.
And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?
Let the battle commence...
Stuart.
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It's same here in Slovenia. You can get a comp without an OS only if the reseller is in "good mood", your friend of relative :]. But please mind another thing: Microsoft is doing a big pressure on all it's resellers, especially "Microsoft Solution Providers". Shall they start selling another OS [or commercializing it], suddendly, prices on MS producst for that company will "slowly" start to rise... Big bad Microsoft? Well, Microsoft is and has always been a "company", and as far as I know, companies are mostly looking for money. As I'm studying economics [I+m 17], I can only understand and "worship" their "haste for money", although as a costumer I don't like their price policy. But, hey, not everybody can become an almost-monopolist... -- Kind regards, Ziga Dolhar ------------------------------------------- libmoney.so.5 is needed by VMWare in order to run MSOfficeXP
Hey, It's same here in Slovenia. You can get a comp without an OS only if the reseller is in "good mood", your friend of relative :]. But please mind another thing: Microsoft is doing a big pressure on all it's resellers, especially "Microsoft Solution Providers". Shall they start selling another OS [or commercializing it], suddendly, prices on MS producst for that company will "slowly" start to rise... Big bad Microsoft? Well, Microsoft is and has always been a "company", and as far as I know, companies are mostly looking for money. As I'm studying economics [I+m 17], I can only understand and "worship" their "haste for money", although as a costumer I don't like their price policy. But, hey, not everybody can become an almost-monopolist... -- Kind regards, Ziga Dolhar ------------------------------------------- libmoney.so.5 is needed by VMWare in order to run MSOfficeXP
participants (13)
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Arjen Runsink
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Bernard Peek
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crrey
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Eddie Howson
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Fergus Wilde
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Francesco Scaglioni
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Jeffrey Taylor
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Ken Hughes
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Samy Elashmawy
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Steven Hatfield
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Stuart Powell
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Terence McCarthy
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Ziga Dolhar