[opensuse] How should one make /media a tmpfs under 12.3?

Carlos E. R.

27 Jun 2013 27 Jun '13

09:45

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, In 12.1 /media was a tmpfs and was created in an init script (/etc/init.d/boot.localfs): if test -d /media && ! mountpoint -q /media; then mount -n -t tmpfs -o mode=0755,nodev,nosuid tmpfs /media fi In 12.3 I tried creating "/etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf": d /media 0755 root root 10d But it does not work, because something creates that directory as a physical directory before the tmpfs can be created. Who/what is creating it? - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHMCb4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WC8wCgi1R9dQXQnVJAHm9tVggz5d58 hzsAn0tucU/G2nk36mcjXHKIuB0N1ku1 =nUSI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Roger Oberholtzer

27 Jun 27 Jun

13:32

On Thu, 2013-06-27 at 11:45 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Hi,

In 12.1 /media was a tmpfs and was created in an init script (/etc/init.d/boot.localfs):

if test -d /media && ! mountpoint -q /media; then mount -n -t tmpfs -o mode=0755,nodev,nosuid tmpfs /media fi

In 12.3 I tried creating "/etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf":

d /media 0755 root root 10d

But it does not work, because something creates that directory as a physical directory before the tmpfs can be created. Who/what is creating

I thought in 12.3 that /media was once again a static folder on root. On my 12.3 system /media is not tmpfs. I only saw that on 12.1 (leading me to start a related thread a month or so ago). If you remove /media and then reboot (without your tmpfiles file) do you get a /media directory? Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer Ramböll RST / Systems Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:48

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-06-27 at 15:32 +0200, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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On Thu, 2013-06-27 at 11:45 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I thought in 12.3 that /media was once again a static folder on root. On my 12.3 system /media is not tmpfs. I only saw that on 12.1 (leading me to start a related thread a month or so ago).

Yes.

...

If you remove /media and then reboot (without your tmpfiles file) do you get a /media directory?

Yes, I do. Another static /media directory is created on boot. That's the problem I have. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHMiPcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W80gCfVvrIEIxL3hlE025WochMjcMw gwgAnRicYDH01rXP8xNjn11yChgZqNIf =toy9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Roger Oberholtzer

13:51

On Thu, 2013-06-27 at 11:45 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Hi,

In 12.1 /media was a tmpfs and was created in an init script (/etc/init.d/boot.localfs):

if test -d /media && ! mountpoint -q /media; then mount -n -t tmpfs -o mode=0755,nodev,nosuid tmpfs /media fi

In 12.3 I tried creating "/etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf":

d /media 0755 root root 10d

But it does not work, because something creates that directory as a physical directory before the tmpfs can be created. Who/what is creating

Also, do you have anything in /etc/fstab that would get mounted into /media at boot time? Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer Ramböll RST / Systems Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:49

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-06-27 at 15:51 +0200, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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Also, do you have anything in /etc/fstab that would get mounted into /media at boot time?

No, it is an empty new system, virtualized, which I use for testing these things. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHMiTMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W6fwCgmGKSDmApPoINOU4AF3qwHdSK no0Ani+o39Eyb4UyZD1chO5lVtbfbIrG =gizn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrey Borzenkov

17:32

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:45:34 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." пишет:

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linux-o0ic:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on tmpfs 343M 0 343M 0% /media linux-o0ic:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab /media tmpfs defaults 0 0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHMdxMACgkQR6LMutpd94whdQCeMEgSNKWjtgLkrAyq+MDmKwrd xtAAn1DVl8LahF4VgTG3Ib2JVO0LjeAC =B9mE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Carlos E. R.

19:14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-06-27 at 21:32 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

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linux-o0ic:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on tmpfs 343M 0 343M 0% /media linux-o0ic:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab /media tmpfs defaults 0 0

eleanor3:~ # cat /etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf #CER, 2013-5-5 #Create /media directory. # d /media 0755 root root 10d # d /media 0755 root root ~10d eleanor3:~ # eleanor3:~ # mount | grep media eleanor3:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab eleanor3:~ # And eleanor3:~ # rmdir /media eleanor3:~ # l /media ls: cannot access /media: No such file or directory eleanor3:~ # reboot Connection to 192.168.74.127 closed by remote host. Connection to 192.168.74.127 closed. cer@Telcontar:~> cer@Telcontar:~> ssh root@192.168.74.127 Password: Last login: Thu Jun 27 20:57:26 2013 from 192.168.74.1 Have a lot of fun... eleanor3:~ # l /media total 8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 27 21:00 ./ drwxr-xr-x 25 root root 4096 Jun 27 21:00 ../ eleanor3:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 7,9G 1004M 6,5G 14% / eleanor3:~ # See? Something creates /media as a real directory. What? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHMjwcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Uc+gCgmVjmHBCsXbHIxN0Am2WZbbb6 kRcAn1ZqqJ7Eht703ozZqA037PfboBNP =rxS2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Cristian Rodríguez

22:45

El 27/06/13 15:14, Carlos E. R. escribió:

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See? Something creates /media as a real directory. What?

udisks2.. systemd-tmpfiles can create directories but not mount points.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

28 Jun 28 Jun

01:12

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-06-27 at 18:45 -0400, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

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El 27/06/13 15:14, Carlos E. R. escribió:

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See? Something creates /media as a real directory. What?

udisks2.. systemd-tmpfiles can create directories but not mount points..

I don't talk of mount points, I'm not mounting anything. I talk that something _is_ creating the real directory /media (not a tmpfs). What? udisk2? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHM4u8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WvegCfbpGp/lGCVMjdc7e+6f9x/2VZ o5wAoJl0l2Oc6pmhY9yDIjakAuOLf2es =8CUz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Andrey Borzenkov

02:28

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Thu, 27 Jun 2013 21:14:15 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." пишет:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Thursday, 2013-06-27 at 21:32 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

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linux-o0ic:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on tmpfs 343M 0 343M 0% /media linux-o0ic:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab /media tmpfs defaults 0 0

eleanor3:~ # cat /etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf #CER, 2013-5-5 #Create /media directory. #

d /media 0755 root root 10d

How is it related to mounting /media as tmpfs?

...

# d /media 0755 root root ~10d

eleanor3:~ # eleanor3:~ # mount | grep media eleanor3:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab eleanor3:~ #

And

eleanor3:~ # rmdir /media

Or this?

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eleanor3:~ # l /media ls: cannot access /media: No such file or directory eleanor3:~ # reboot Connection to 192.168.74.127 closed by remote host. Connection to 192.168.74.127 closed. cer@Telcontar:~> cer@Telcontar:~> ssh root@192.168.74.127 Password: Last login: Thu Jun 27 20:57:26 2013 from 192.168.74.1 Have a lot of fun... eleanor3:~ # l /media total 8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 27 21:00 ./ drwxr-xr-x 25 root root 4096 Jun 27 21:00 ../ eleanor3:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 7,9G 1004M 6,5G 14% / eleanor3:~ #

See? Something creates /media as a real directory.

Do you want to have it mounted as tmpfs or to remove it on every boot?

...

What?

I do not know. If you want to ask, how to get rid of /media completely, please say so :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHM9MoACgkQR6LMutpd94w0TwCeKyCdQEF6BPkTClsDz2aDYKHM kZ8AoMy5w3gFO+idKYHaLZdn9Doxsvdf =0V7i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- N▀╖╡ФЛr╦⌡yИ ┼Z)z{.╠О╝·к⌡╠йБmЙ)z{.╠Й+│:╒{Zrшaz▄'z╥╕j)h╔ИЛ╨г╬ё ч╝┼^·к╛z┼Ю

Carlos E. R.

09:50

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 06:28 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

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...
See? Something creates /media as a real directory.

Do you want to have it mounted as tmpfs or to remove it on every boot?

...
What?

I do not know. If you want to ask, how to get rid of /media completely, please say so :)

Something, I don not know what, creates /media on every boot, as my code above demonstrated and you did not read. I want to have it a tmpfs and it doesn't work, because something runs a "mkdir /media" on every boot! WHO!? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHNXEoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VGfQCfaEtP1x6h//vmoLJMkJ9bM1LM 7i8AnRES4GMd6/Kz2lz2IGKT9jZOrS/l =N8ya -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrey Borzenkov

10:11

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 06:28 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

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...
See? Something creates /media as a real directory.

Do you want to have it mounted as tmpfs or to remove it on every boot?

...
What?

I do not know. If you want to ask, how to get rid of /media completely, please say so :)

Something, I don not know what, creates /media on every boot, as my code above demonstrated and you did not read.

I want to have it a tmpfs and it doesn't work, because something runs a "mkdir /media" on every boot!

May be I do not understand what you mean under "have it a tmpfs". To have /media as tmpfs you need to mount it as tmpfs, and to mount it you obviously need mount point - /media.

...

WHO!?

systemd-tmpfiles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

16:59

Andrey Borzenkov said the following on 06/28/2013 06:11 AM:

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On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 06:28 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

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...
See? Something creates /media as a real directory.

Do you want to have it mounted as tmpfs or to remove it on every boot?

...
What?

I do not know. If you want to ask, how to get rid of /media completely, please say so :)

Something, I don not know what, creates /media on every boot, as my code above demonstrated and you did not read.

I want to have it a tmpfs and it doesn't work, because something runs a "mkdir /media" on every boot!

May be I do not understand what you mean under "have it a tmpfs". To have /media as tmpfs you need to mount it as tmpfs, and to mount it you obviously need mount point - /media.

...
WHO!?

systemd-tmpfiles

So long as it is in /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent it will be recreated by systemd-tmpfiles on every boot. As the man page says, you've read that, I presume, if you don't want that action you symlink the relevant filename to /dev/null. Carlos, the only way you will stop that is to remove the relevant file or symlinking it. If you want /media to be a tmpfs as is # mount | grep tmpfs devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=1242868k,nr_inodes=209865,mode=755) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) /run then look how /run gets created. Its done with systemd, of course :-) On my 12.3 (recently upgraded) system that is /usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount for the tmpfs on /var/run var-lock.mount for the tmpfs on /var/lock So you have a bind-mount there :-) You could bind-mount to /dev/shm -- people used to do that :-) # ls -dli /run /var/run 2429 drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 720 Jun 28 11:49 /run 2429 drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 720 Jun 28 11:49 /var/run So why isn't/usr/lib/systemd/system/tmp.mount being used? Cristian has pointed out previously in this list that openSuse has been modified so that it isn't. HOW? you ask? That is what Andrey has been telling you! Because /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf is creating them first. -- "You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." -- Margaret Thatcher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:38

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 12:59 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Andrey Borzenkov said the following on 06/28/2013 06:11 AM:

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On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

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So long as it is in /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent it will be recreated by systemd-tmpfiles on every boot. As the man page says, you've read that, I presume, if you don't want that action you symlink the relevant filename to /dev/null.

I don't understand this. Symlink /media to dev/null?

...

Carlos, the only way you will stop that is to remove the relevant file or symlinking it.

If you want /media to be a tmpfs as is

# mount | grep tmpfs

devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=1242868k,nr_inodes=209865,mode=755) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755)

/run then look how /run gets created. Its done with systemd, of course :-)

That is precisely what I did. I looked some documentation, which I did not comprehend properly, then did: grep: /*.conf: No such file or directory /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/clamav.conf:# clamav needs a directory in /var/run: /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/clamav.conf:d /var/run/clamav 0755 vscan vscan - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:# systems. /run/lock/subsys is used for serializing SysV service /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:# /run/lock/lockdev is used to serialize access to tty devices via /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:# changed for openSUSE : only /run/lock should be available /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:d /run/lock 0775 root lock - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:#d /run/lock/subsys 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:#d /run/lock/lockdev 0775 root lock - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/nscd.conf:d /var/run/nscd 0755 root root /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/screen.conf:# Screen needs some files in /var/run: /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/screen.conf:d /var/run/screens 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/screen.conf:d /var/run/uscreens 1777 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/user 0755 root root ~10d /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:F /run/utmp 0664 root utmp - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/ask-password 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/seats 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/sessions 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/users 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/shutdown 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:F /run/nologin 0755 - - - "System is booting up." to find some examples. But you see, there is no entry there for "/run" or "/var/run", so I took the example from a wrong entry.

...

On my 12.3 (recently upgraded) system that is /usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount for the tmpfs on /var/run var-lock.mount for the tmpfs on /var/lock

So you have a bind-mount there :-) You could bind-mount to /dev/shm -- people used to do that :-)

Ah. Indeed. So it is not created the way I thought, it is created directly by a service!

...

# ls -dli /run /var/run 2429 drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 720 Jun 28 11:49 /run 2429 drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 720 Jun 28 11:49 /var/run

So why isn't/usr/lib/systemd/system/tmp.mount being used? Cristian has pointed out previously in this list that openSuse has been modified so that it isn't. HOW? you ask? That is what Andrey has been telling you!

Because /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf is creating them first.

Ok, so if I want /media to be a tmpfs, either I bind-mount it to somewhere, or create it with a service like "/etc/systemd/system/media.mount similar to "/usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount". Right? Hmm, no, "/usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount" creates a bind from "/run" to /var/run". Then where is "/run" created? I could, then, create a directory under "/run", and mount-bind "/media" to it. Or create an entire new tmpfs. Right? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHN2BQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VDTgCdFcSM7W1Rc4vkoj3nzvu+cFJy x8MAnitw4ByYmgwsEyH2nHlR1lkGmRmm =hsOe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 20:38 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I could, then, create a directory under "/run", and mount-bind "/media" to it. Or create an entire new tmpfs.

Right?

eleanor3:~ # cat /etc/systemd/system/media.mount #CER - create a /media directory bind-mounted to /var/run/media # /var/run/media is created as directory in /etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf [Unit] Description=Runtime Directory Before=local-fs.target # skip mounting if the directory does not exist or is a symlink ConditionPathIsDirectory=/var/run/media ConditionPathIsSymbolicLink=!/var/run/media [Mount] What=/media Where=/var/run/media Type=bind Options=bind eleanor3:~ # cat /etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf #CER, 2013-5-5 #Create /var/run/media directory, which is going to be used as a bind point for /media # in /etc/systemd/system/media.mount d /var/run/media 0755 root root 10d # /etc/init.d/boot.localfs tenía esto: # mount -n -t tmpfs -o mode=0755,nodev,nosuid tmpfs /media eleanor3:~ # The "/var/run/media" is created at boot, but /media is not bind-mounted to it. I did something wrong. eleanor3:~ # systemctl enable /etc/systemd/system/media.mount The unit files have no [Install] section. They are not meant to be enabled using systemctl. Possible reasons for having this kind of units are: 1) A unit may be statically enabled by being symlinked from another unit's .wants/ or .requires/ directory. 2) A unit's purpose may be to act as a helper for some other unit which has a requirement dependency on it. 3) A unit may be started when needed via activation (socket, path, timer, D-Bus, udev, scripted systemctl call, ...). eleanor3:~ # It is not that way... or I have to add a "after" something clause. :-? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHN4G0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WkIgCfdXP0l0lY0eRtFEpLjDeq04x8 PYYAn1fRya1fjKQ59iHEAjcQMWJEU+SQ =k9KC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Andrey Borzenkov

19:27

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:13:43 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

eleanor3:~ # cat /etc/systemd/system/media.mount #CER - create a /media directory bind-mounted to /var/run/media

Umm ... any specific reason to not use /etc/fstab? For the third time ... linux-o0ic:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab /media tmpfs defaults 0 0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHN47MACgkQR6LMutpd94yugwCdFZsB/QaT7OxY5V4PnEJJRzs5 A7AAnjo/Adb6fn6HU6KFxYNIyY8TYkDr =zbf1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- N▀╖╡ФЛr╦⌡yИ ┼Z)z{.╠О╝·к⌡╠йБmЙ)z{.╠Й+│:╒{Zrшaz▄'z╥╕j)h╔ИЛ╨г╬ё ч╝┼^·к╛z┼Ю

Carlos E. R.

29 Jun 29 Jun

03:08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 23:27 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote: El 2013-06-28 a las 23:27 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:

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В Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:13:43 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:

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eleanor3:~ # cat /etc/systemd/system/media.mount #CER - create a /media directory bind-mounted to /var/run/media

Umm ... any specific reason to not use /etc/fstab?

Two: · That 12.1 did not use fstab for this purpose · That I want to learn a different way · Adding one or two files is easier to replicate than checking fstab and adding/replacing a line in fstab. That was three reasons :-)

...

For the third time ...

linux-o0ic:~ # grep /media /etc/fstab /media tmpfs defaults 0 0

If I were to use fstab, I would not create a new tmpfs, but bind mount to an existing one. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHOT8sACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Vj7QCffpH6//6ZSGRQEkHu9DUMXoc0 oMUAn1laFi2ly0G7tryMo8A4nLt/9rTo =YF6Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Anton Aylward

28 Jun 28 Jun

19:20

Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 02:38 PM:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 12:59 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Andrey Borzenkov said the following on 06/28/2013 06:11 AM:

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On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

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So long as it is in /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent it will be recreated by systemd-tmpfiles on every boot. As the man page says, you've read that, I presume, if you don't want that action you symlink the relevant filename to /dev/null.

I don't understand this. Symlink /media to dev/null?

RTFM Symlink the appropiate /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent to /dev/null like it says in thee man page: <quote> If the administrator wants to disable a configuration file supplied by the vendor the recommended way is to place a symlink to /dev/null in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ bearing the same file name. </quote> RTFM!

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Carlos, the only way you will stop that is to remove the relevant file or symlinking it.

If you want /media to be a tmpfs as is

# mount | grep tmpfs

devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=1242868k,nr_inodes=209865,mode=755) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755)

/run then look how /run gets created. Its done with systemd, of course :-)

That is precisely what I did. I looked some documentation, which I did not comprehend properly, then did:

grep: /*.conf: No such file or directory /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/clamav.conf:# clamav needs a directory in /var/run: /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/clamav.conf:d /var/run/clamav 0755 vscan vscan - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:# systems. /run/lock/subsys is used for serializing SysV service /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:# /run/lock/lockdev is used to serialize access to tty devices via /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:# changed for openSUSE : only /run/lock should be available /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:d /run/lock 0775 root lock - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:#d /run/lock/subsys 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf:#d /run/lock/lockdev 0775 root lock - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/nscd.conf:d /var/run/nscd 0755 root root /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/screen.conf:# Screen needs some files in /var/run: /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/screen.conf:d /var/run/screens 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/screen.conf:d /var/run/uscreens 1777 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/user 0755 root root ~10d /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:F /run/utmp 0664 root utmp - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/ask-password 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/seats 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/sessions 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/users 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:d /run/systemd/shutdown 0755 root root - /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf:F /run/nologin 0755 - - - "System is booting up."

...

to find some examples. But you see, there is no entry there for "/run" or "/var/run", so I took the example from a wrong entry.

I have $ ls -l /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 564 Jun 13 05:50 /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf and it reads # This file is part of systemd. # # systemd is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it # under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public License as published by # the Free Software Foundation; either version 2.1 of the License, or # (at your option) any later version. # See tmpfiles.d(5) for details # Clear tmp directories separately, to make them easier to override d /tmp 1777 root root 10d d /var/tmp 1777 root root 30d # Exclude namespace mountpoints created with PrivateTmp=yes X /tmp/systemd-private-* X /var/tmp/systemd-private-* So THAT is responsible for creating and cleaning /tmp If I want to turn that off I create /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf symlinked to /dev/null just like the man page recommends.

...

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On my 12.3 (recently upgraded) system that is /usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount for the tmpfs on /var/run var-lock.mount for the tmpfs on /var/lock

So you have a bind-mount there :-) You could bind-mount to /dev/shm -- people used to do that :-)

Ah. Indeed. So it is not created the way I thought, it is created directly by a service!

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# ls -dli /run /var/run 2429 drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 720 Jun 28 11:49 /run 2429 drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 720 Jun 28 11:49 /var/run

So why isn't/usr/lib/systemd/system/tmp.mount being used? Cristian has pointed out previously in this list that openSuse has been modified so that it isn't. HOW? you ask? That is what Andrey has been telling you!

Because /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf is creating them first.

Ok, so if I want /media to be a tmpfs, either I bind-mount it to somewhere, or create it with a service like "/etc/systemd/system/media.mount similar to "/usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount".

Right?

IIRC my (presently off line) RH system is like that. The -bind is the old, old way of doing it http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=16450 but you can do that with a .mount as I referenced and make it 'systemd clean'. However I'd start from systemd :-) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1199924#p1199924 More discussion at https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1176170 Isn't google wonderful? But don't forget this thread http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/On-cleaning-tmp-systemd-private-td4990626i2...

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Hmm, no, "/usr/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount" creates a bind from "/run" to /var/run". Then where is "/run" created?

I could, then, create a directory under "/run", and mount-bind "/media" to it. Or create an entire new tmpfs.

Right?

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

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-- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

29 Jun 29 Jun

03:23

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 15:20 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 02:38 PM:

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I don't understand this. Symlink /media to dev/null?

RTFM Symlink the appropiate /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent to /dev/null like it says in thee man page:

<quote> If the administrator wants to disable a configuration file supplied by the vendor the recommended way is to place a symlink to /dev/null in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ bearing the same file name. </quote>

RTFM!

Ok, but I do not want to disable any of those files, AFAIK. And RTFM only applies if you know what to look for already. You have probably read all those manuals and remember them and know the relations from one to the other, and probably much more than those manuals say. If I read some of the manuals (I did) they tell me very little.

...

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to find some examples. But you see, there is no entry there for "/run" or "/var/run", so I took the example from a wrong entry.

I have $ ls -l /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 564 Jun 13 05:50 /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf

and it reads

...

So THAT is responsible for creating and cleaning /tmp

Yes, I know, I have seen that file previously, I'm aware of it. I may not remember all the time, though.

...

...
Right?

IIRC my (presently off line) RH system is like that.

The -bind is the old, old way of doing it http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=16450 but you can do that with a .mount as I referenced and make it 'systemd clean'.

However I'd start from systemd :-) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1199924#p1199924

More discussion at https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1176170

Isn't google wonderful?

Thanks, I'll have a look at those. Google is wonderful if you are lucky or you have a good idea what to look for.

...

But don't forget this thread http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/On-cleaning-tmp-systemd-private-td4990626i2...

Ok, that one too. I have the four opened for reading later. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHOUx8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XAigCfVjvUWZ7noSF2wEpCo1XHeJcM 1UkAn24rcxY5PpMFzgIdtXX8XmmWuZgH =9oRU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

11:19

Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 11:23 PM:

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On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 15:20 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 02:38 PM:

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...
I don't undertand this. Symlink /media to dev/null?

RTFM Symlink the appropiate /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent to /dev/null like it says in thee man page:

<quote> If the administrator wants to disable a configuration file supplied by the vendor the recommended way is to place a symlink to /dev/null in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ bearing the same file name. </quote>

RTFM!

Ok, but I do not want to disable any of those files, AFAIK.

Yes you do. You've said a number of times that you don't know where/why /tmp is being created as a regular directory on boot and don't want it to hapen. We've been telling you that the above is the why, where the files are and how to stop it hapepning. You don't have to delete the /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d file, you just over-ride it in /etc/tmpfiles.d with the symlink. If you don't like that you can revert easily by remvoing the file in /etc/tmpfiles.d

...

And RTFM only applies if you know what to look for already.

Again, we've told you a number of times and and I've said many, many times "use apropos".

...

You have probably read all those manuals and remember them and know the relations from one to the other, and probably much more than those manuals say. If I read some of the manuals (I did) they tell me very little.

Nonsense! Nonsense on all counts. I run apropos; I google. I re-read the man pages. I look at what other people have done and discuss. I keep reading because I don't get it all the first time and Cristian and others keep rubbing my nose in my oversights. Oh, and I have the junker from the Closet of Anxieties so I can experiment. No, I don't 'remember'. When I write that last message to you I had to keep re-reading the man page because not only wasn't it in my long term memory, it wasn't in my short term memory either. I must have run 'man' about 20 times to compose that message. Somewhere along the line I saw things I'd never noticed before.

...

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...
to find some examples. But you see, there is no entry there for "/run" or "/var/run", so I took the example from a wrong entry.

I have $ ls -l /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 564 Jun 13 05:50 /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf

and it reads

...

...
So THAT is responsible for creating and cleaning /tmp

Yes, I know, I have seen that file previously, I'm aware of it. I may not remember all the time, though.

:-) So that is the one that you have to override... like the man page says.

...

Google is wonderful if you are lucky or you have a good idea what to look for.

Mostly because I never get it right the first time, or the second, or the third. I keep trying. With different words; With different word orders, Sometimes settling it to exclude stuff. Its not luck; its persistence. Just like with apropos-ing for man pages, Just like re-reading man pages. http://intradayfun.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Never_Give_Up.jpg -- There's a truism that the road to Hell is often paved with good intentions. The corollary is that evil is best known not by its motives but by its *methods*. -- Eric S. Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:36

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-06-29 at 07:19 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 11:23 PM:

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Ok, but I do not want to disable any of those files, AFAIK.

Yes you do.

You've said a number of times that you don't know where/why /tmp is being created as a regular directory on boot and don't want it to hapen.

No, not /tmp, but /media. And it was hapening because I misunderstood what this line I myself wrote does: d /media 0755 root root 10d

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And RTFM only applies if you know what to look for already.

Again, we've told you a number of times and and I've said many, many times "use apropos".

I have and I do. Why don't you think I did not? cer@Telcontar:~> apropos tmpfs tmpfs: nothing appropriate. cer@Telcontar:~> So... But this is daunting: cer@Telcontar:~> apropos systemd | wc -l 109 cer@Telcontar:~> I did look at documentation and examples, but got it wrong; so I came and asked here instead, where there are humans that may already know the answer. I'm helping people all the time, so I see nothing wrong in being helped for once, instead of the other way round ;-)

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Google is wonderful if you are lucky or you have a good idea what to look for.

Mostly because I never get it right the first time, or the second, or the third. I keep trying. With different words; With different word orders, Sometimes settling it to exclude stuff.

Its not luck; its persistence.

My friends know that I'm bad at using google :-) I was once doing some training course; most of them were younger than me. When the teacher asked something, I thought about it. Those kids simply wrote the whole question on google - and amazingly, they got the answer quite often.

...

http://intradayfun.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Never_Give_Up.jpg

:-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHOxtYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VdrgCggMBYhJpBc2b7LKsolVDBxD1L 0bsAn23zBb4LXdeno7ugcoODusSPhTT7 =mHoz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

12:13

Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/29/2013 07:36 AM:

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On Saturday, 2013-06-29 at 07:19 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 11:23 PM:

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...
And RTFM only applies if you know what to look for already.

Again, we've told you a number of times and and I've said many, many times "use apropos".

I have and I do. Why don't you think I did not?

cer@Telcontar:~> apropos tmpfs tmpfs: nothing appropriate. cer@Telcontar:~>

Yup, that happened to me. But you don't get the same results with google :-) However I also tried "apropos tmp" and filtered that with grep a few times.

...

So... But this is daunting:

cer@Telcontar:~> apropos systemd | wc -l 109 cer@Telcontar:~>

That's why I use grep. Daunting, but it didn't stop me. I persisted. I followed a dead end with udev; did "apropos systemd| grep mount" and read those pages a few times; did "apropos systemd | grep tmp" read those. I also went back over this list and read what Cristian had to say and check out the pages he referred to and the articles on the web he referred to, not least of all the stuff Lennart has written. That led me through various avenues that gave me a better general understanding of how systemd works and I gained more respect for how well it had been thought out. I then went though the [systemd-dev] archives. You want fast answers? That's why we ask people here, people who have taken the time to wade though this stuff. I have no doubt that Cristian and Andrey and others have done. Its what I've done a number of times when I start on a new project and have to come up to speed fast. The reality is that few people know how to write text-books and manuals that are laid out in a manner that addresses the specific thing you need to learn about. Call it "unstructured data". You have to wade though it and create your own structure. 5x3 cards are good. TiddlyWiki is good. Persistence is good.

...

I did look at documentation and examples, but got it wrong; so I came and asked here instead, where there are humans that may already know the answer. I'm helping people all the time, so I see nothing wrong in being helped for once, instead of the other way round ;-)

:-) What's discomforting is that we pointed you at the stuff and few times and you seemed to miss it and the narrow communication channel of email - what do they say, only 7% of communication is the words, we loose the 'tome', the body language - we're unclear as to why you seemed to miss it. That and you seem fluent in English ....

...

...
...
Google is wonderful if you are lucky or you have a good idea what to look for.

Mostly because I never get it right the first time, or the second, or the third. I keep trying. With different words; With different word orders, Sometimes settling it to exclude stuff.

Its not luck; its persistence.

My friends know that I'm bad at using google :-)

I give the impression of being good because I'm persistent, but even so, I get stumped at times. This was almost one. I was drowned in articles that were belabouring the point that using tmpfs for /tmp is "Bad Thing". It took persistence and filtering them out and refining the filtering. And more persistence. And being sidetracked. And having to deal with stuff a couple or more years old. And more filtering. Google-fu is about persistence.

...

I was once doing some training course; most of them were younger than me. When the teacher asked something, I thought about it. Those kids simply wrote the whole question on google - and amazingly, they got the answer quite often.

Of course some google-fu is learnt and those younger minds aren't full of the other stuff that clutters the minds of the likes of Thee and Mee (and few others...). But so long as the teacher asks questions that can respond to simple queries .... As time goes by, the 'Net has become 'The Net of a Million Lies" and google can't tell the difference. One day those simple questions resulting in simple queries will get wrong answers. Or simply 'popularist' answers. Like relying on Wikipedia as an authoritative source of knowledge. With age and experience comes, one hopes, discernment. So 'thinking about it' is a good skill to have. Along with persistence. -- What was the best thing before sliced bread? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-06-29 at 08:13 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

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Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/29/2013 07:36 AM:

...

The reality is that few people know how to write text-books and manuals that are laid out in a manner that addresses the specific thing you need to learn about. Call it "unstructured data". You have to wade though it and create your own structure. 5x3 cards are good. TiddlyWiki is good. Persistence is good.

Yup.

...

...
I did look at documentation and examples, but got it wrong; so I came and asked here instead, where there are humans that may already know the answer. I'm helping people all the time, so I see nothing wrong in being helped for once, instead of the other way round ;-)

:-)

What's discomforting is that we pointed you at the stuff and few times and you seemed to miss it and the narrow communication channel of email - what do they say, only 7% of communication is the words, we loose the 'tome', the body language - we're unclear as to why you seemed to miss it. That and you seem fluent in English ....

Apparently I was doing something and writing another thing, because I misunderstood things. And people here also misunderstood me, and it was all a mess. O:-) (I'm fluent with English, but it is not my first language; I make mistakes.)

...

...
I was once doing some training course; most of them were younger than me. When the teacher asked something, I thought about it. Those kids simply wrote the whole question on google - and amazingly, they got the answer quite often.

Of course some google-fu is learnt and those younger minds aren't full of the other stuff that clutters the minds of the likes of Thee and Mee (and few others...). But so long as the teacher asks questions that can respond to simple queries .... As time goes by, the 'Net has become 'The Net of a Million Lies" and google can't tell the difference. One day those simple questions resulting in simple queries will get wrong answers. Or simply 'popularist' answers. Like relying on Wikipedia as an authoritative source of knowledge. With age and experience comes, one hopes, discernment. So 'thinking about it' is a good skill to have. Along with persistence.

Some people despise the Wikipedia as being totally unreliable. I think it is neither unreliable, neither the ultimate source. It is, at least with technical articles, a good initial source that can be used to locate other sources. Good Wikipedia articles point to other information sources that can corroborate or expand those articles. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHPM4sACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Vf0gCgk655b5NJox92/OkRSOHBJyYB nu8An2koK0Coc5JHakN1bWvsESTZLsES =tL9a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE

19:28

On 06/29/2013 03:20 PM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

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(I'm fluent with English, but it is not my first language; I make mistakes.)

Carlos, I find your English much better then a lot of people that have English as a first language. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

22:16

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-06-29 at 15:28 -0400, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

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On 06/29/2013 03:20 PM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

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(I'm fluent with English, but it is not my first language; I make mistakes.)

Carlos,

I find your English much better then a lot of people that have English as a first language.

Well, thanks (blush) :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHPXNoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XiggCdG9OJ8cZvtIQcWV5jZyCEx4V9 8hkAn1/8LJn7sXuUlCfeQY1qGEg2uop9 =U88i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:22

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-06-29 at 05:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 15:20 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

...
However I'd start from systemd :-) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1199924#p1199924

More discussion at https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1176170

Isn't google wonderful?

Thanks, I'll have a look at those.

Google is wonderful if you are lucky or you have a good idea what to look for.

...
But don't forget this thread http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/On-cleaning-tmp-systemd-private-td4990626i2...

Ok, that one too. I have the four opened for reading later.

Ok, this one http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=16450 (HOWTO: Using tmpfs for /tmp, /var/{log,run,lock...}) uses sysv. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1199924#p1199924 (Index » Newbie Corner » /tmp as tmpfs) Ok, they use "/lib/systemd/system/tmp.mount" like this: [Unit] Description=Temporary Directory Documentation=man:hier(7) DefaultDependencies=no Conflicts=umount.target Before=local-fs.target umount.target [Mount] What=tmpfs Where=/tmp Type=tmpfs Options=mode=1777,strictatime which looks reasonable. But I'm trying to bind mount and it is not working. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1176170 (Index » Newbie Corner » [Solved] /tmp under systemd) It is about undoing /tmp as a tmpfs. I don't need that either, openSUSE already defaults to not having it a tmpfs. http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/On-cleaning-tmp-systemd-private-td4990626i2... (On cleaning /tmp/systemd-private-* ) Cristian does this: mkdir -p /etc/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/tmp.mount /etc/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/tmp.mount I do have a "/etc/systemd/system/media.mount" which is not working. To make it run should I create a symlink to it in some target.wants directory? Makes sense, but sounds a bit cludgy. (If there is a nice, easy, document that explains this, please say) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHOw5UACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XcfQCdGiIFv9zO6t1YJYqhf/9fUj8R nisAoJVsM3W20wNwj9T6mVToRFDb4Zlj =D0/j -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Anton Aylward

12:16

Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/29/2013 07:22 AM:

...

which looks reasonable. But I'm trying to bind mount and it is not working.

*W*H*Y* is it not working? Have you disabled the creation of the directory as discussed previously by the over-ride in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ ??? -- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:12

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-06-29 at 08:16 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/29/2013 07:22 AM:

...
which looks reasonable. But I'm trying to bind mount and it is not working.

*W*H*Y* is it not working?

Have you disabled the creation of the directory as discussed previously by the over-ride in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ ???

(my objetive is having /media a tmpfs, not changing /tmp) What I have now, is the creation of an empty directory at "/var/run/media" (done by "/etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf"). Then I have "/etc/systemd/system/media.mount" which should bind-mount /media to it, but this is failing. I think I also need: /usr/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/media.mount --> /etc/systemd/system/media.mount or equivalent. I haven't tried this yet (and I don't like adding files to "/usr/lib/systemd/", i prefer /etc/systemd). And then I have to find out if automounting of devices, globally, still works. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHPMawACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WUDACfQrsjSyS4GJViuvpbL3mXphb6 wP0AmwYqPfLmzFOxTQF6++hY2mj82HAY =EYtT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrey Borzenkov

30 Jun 30 Jun

03:45

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Sat, 29 Jun 2013 21:12:37 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

(my objetive is having /media a tmpfs, not changing /tmp)

I'm afraid I still do not see any connection between this objective and next paragraph. I do not understand why you insist on doing it in the most convoluted way.

...

What I have now, is the creation of an empty directory at "/var/run/media" (done by "/etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf"). Then I have "/etc/systemd/system/media.mount" which should bind-mount /media to it, but this is failing.

...

I think I also need:

/usr/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/media.mount --> /etc/systemd/system/media.mount

As with any other unit you need to tell systemd that you want this unit to be started. You use dependencies of type Requires (Required-By) or Wants (Wanted-By) for it. You need to decide, whether your new mount is optional (.wants) or mandatory (.requires). Systemd automatically creates units with right dependencies for every filesystem in /etc/fstab which is one more reason to use it :)

...

or equivalent. I haven't tried this yet (and I don't like adding files to "/usr/lib/systemd/", i prefer /etc/systemd).

So do it in /etc/systemd. Or even better, read about [Install] section in man systemd.unit(5) ... "systemctl enable" even explicitly tells you that your unit does not have it ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHPqcQACgkQR6LMutpd94xOxACfdJEbFVxmvBTUe7FYOjirgiY6 5dwAn0JoI1b0YKtdcJyQayZ9LFC/se4r =S5P8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Brian K. White

9 Jul 9 Jul

00:09

On 6/28/2013 3:20 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. said the following on 06/28/2013 02:38 PM:

...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 12:59 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:

...
Andrey Borzenkov said the following on 06/28/2013 06:11 AM:

...
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

...
So long as it is in /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent it will be recreated by systemd-tmpfiles on every boot. As the man page says, you've read that, I presume, if you don't want that action you symlink the relevant filename to /dev/null.

I don't understand this. Symlink /media to dev/null?

RTFM Symlink the appropiate /etc/tmp*.d/<whatver> or the /usr/lib equivalent to /dev/null like it says in thee man page:

<quote> If the administrator wants to disable a configuration file supplied by the vendor the recommended way is to place a symlink to /dev/null in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ bearing the same file name. </quote>

RTFM!

This interface, like most everything else from Poettering/Sievers as usual, is really backwards and terrible and tramples all over principle of least surprise. It is in no way obvious or the users fault for having the system do unexpected things by default that are not indicated by any of the user-facing config files, and you have to go out of your way to *prevent* it with arcane non-obvious things like creating a file that didn't exist before, and making it a symlink to /dev/null. A more confusing and opaque system is hard to even imagine. Especially for a user-facing interface. Instead of having it be where some config file always exists, and can always contain a reference to some common action even when disabled, by having a commented out option or by having OPTION=false etc, or failing that, at least having it where things don't happen UNLESS config files that say so exist, like /etc/foo.d directories have, no instead something will happen all by itself unless you go out of your way to prevent it, but you don't know how to do that because, you have no way to know what's doing it in the first place, none of your config files that you know about says to do any such thing. Then you have the other side of things, say your /dev/null link does exist. Normally any file like that just looks like either an error or the ugliest of ugly hacks to work around something that doesn't provide a proper way do do something you want. Like how you can prevent ssh from saving/comparing/rejecting ssh host fingerprints by symlinking your known_hosts file to /dev/null. It's a complete and utter hack and no way to operate for real. This is not even slightly a case of blame the user for not rtfm. There wasn't even enough to go on to begin with to indicate which fm to r. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrey Borzenkov

28 Jun 28 Jun

02:50

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:45:34 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Hi,

In 12.1 /media was a tmpfs and was created in an init script (/etc/init.d/boot.localfs):

if test -d /media && ! mountpoint -q /media; then mount -n -t tmpfs -o mode=0755,nodev,nosuid tmpfs /media fi

In 12.3 I tried creating "/etc/tmpfiles.d/media.conf":

d /media 0755 root root 10d

But it does not work, because something creates that directory

Err ... from man tmpfiles.d(5) d Create a directory if it doesn't exist yet Carlos, do you have some strong reasons to *not* read systemd related manual pages? :)

...

as a physical directory before the tmpfs can be created. Who/what is creating it?

- -- Cheers

Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAlHM+g0ACgkQR6LMutpd94yp7QCUCPjfVcptX5yptmyaYKHPqJOZ cACgmcxXbgpMBC50t/Br5Wehoup5ILQ= =zbRj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Carlos E. R.

09:47

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 06:50 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...

В Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:45:34 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:

...

...
But it does not work, because something creates that directory

Err ... from man tmpfiles.d(5)

d Create a directory if it doesn't exist yet

Carlos, do you have some strong reasons to *not* read systemd related manual pages? :)

Do you have a strong reason not to understand what I write? READ what I say, not what you THINK I say. I know that 'd' creates a directory. But it is not doing it!!! WHO is creating that REAL directory, that is my question? WHY is my d.... line not working? The d... line does not work because the /media directory exists already, matching what the manual page says. IT EXISTS ALREADY. HOW DO I AVOID IT EXISTING?! Sigh...! :-/ - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHNW6gACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WghgCfYE8c2Oe8WzDXZv/Kcu4QvSSE ZH0An3v6JxSDyK0kQuhfaZ/LWN6zUZgQ =DD2u -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Andrey Borzenkov

10:10

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Content-ID:

On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 06:50 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...
В Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:45:34 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:

...
...
But it does not work, because something creates that directory

Err ... from man tmpfiles.d(5)

d Create a directory if it doesn't exist yet

Carlos, do you have some strong reasons to *not* read systemd related manual pages? :)

Do you have a strong reason not to understand what I write? READ what I say, not what you THINK I say.

I know that 'd' creates a directory. But it is not doing it!!!

You say that /media directory re-appears every time on reboot after you delete it. I'd say, 'd' is doing it just fine :)

...

WHO is creating that REAL directory, that is my question?

systemd-tmpfiles following instructions you gave it.

...

WHY is my d.... line not working?

May be if you explain what you expect from this line, it would be easier.

...

The d... line does not work because the /media directory exists already, matching what the manual page says. IT EXISTS ALREADY.

HOW DO I AVOID IT EXISTING?!

Remove your 'd' line from tmpfiles? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 14:10 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

...

...
WHO is creating that REAL directory, that is my question?

systemd-tmpfiles following instructions you gave it.

NO. It is not a tmpfs, it is a real directory. Don't you understand? eleanor3:~ # ls -l /media total 0 eleanor3:~ # mount | grep media eleanor3:~ # mount | grep tmpfs devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=370160k,nr_inodes=92540,mode=755) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) eleanor3:~ # Where is it? It is NOT a tmpfs. eleanor3:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 7,9G 1003M 6,5G 14% / eleanor3:~ # It is ROOT. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHNY2wACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VFbwCfYqwkBNRksN5s4PIIMaco7EWt F5MAn3LvPYh0O+OCLgUtOKl6IBltSCK0 =Y+AQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrey Borzenkov

10:35

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 14:10 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

...
...
WHO is creating that REAL directory, that is my question?

systemd-tmpfiles following instructions you gave it.

NO. It is not a tmpfs, it is a real directory.

You told it to create real directory, it did create real directory.

...

Don't you understand?

I understand that it is real directory. I do not understand why it surprises you and I do not understand what you do not understand. Could you explain what you expect from 'd' line? I have a feeling that you misunderstand what it does.

...

eleanor3:~ # ls -l /media total 0

eleanor3:~ # mount | grep media eleanor3:~ # mount | grep tmpfs devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=370160k,nr_inodes=92540,mode=755) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) eleanor3:~ #

Where is it? It is NOT a tmpfs.

Did you configure it as tmpfs?

...

eleanor3:~ # df -h /media Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 7,9G 1003M 6,5G 14% / eleanor3:~ #

It is ROOT.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

17:26

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 14:35 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

...

I understand that it is real directory. I do not understand why it surprises you and I do not understand what you do not understand.

Could you explain what you expect from 'd' line? I have a feeling that you misunderstand what it does.

You mean that this line: d /media 0755 root root 10d creates a real directory? Then certainly, I misread the docs I read. You could have told me that straight at the start, that my line was wrong... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHNx1kACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XEZwCgj/LPkQRXPtZyDWy2LLdjmkOd aC4An3ietExgbXxP2WESoj2/uNx03B1q =I3tM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrey Borzenkov

17:51

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:26:42 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 2013-06-28 at 14:35 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

...
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

...
I understand that it is real directory. I do not understand why it surprises you and I do not understand what you do not understand.

Could you explain what you expect from 'd' line? I have a feeling that you misunderstand what it does.

You mean that this line:

d /media 0755 root root 10d

creates a real directory? Then certainly, I misread the docs I read. You could have told me that straight at the start, that my line was wrong...

This line is neither wrong nor correct by itself and actually it is useful to ensure /media (mount point) exists and is periodically cleaned up. I cannot read your mind to know that you expected something entirely different from it and you still did not answer what you expected ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHNzRoACgkQR6LMutpd94wMLQCgr5eOVnK9bDRvW7PjRj0CGyr8 4ToAoInzDsblYQU9wpX/TR9izm+OKZsl =/an8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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participants (7)

Andrey Borzenkov
Anton Aylward
Brian K. White
Carlos E. R.
Cristian Rodríguez
Ken Schneider - openSUSE
Roger Oberholtzer