Re: [SLE] OK, Now I'm Actually Scared
Well, In average it takes me from one to two months with the each new SuSE release to make it usable. Generally I have to fix leftover bugs, find missing/corrupted packages and manually edit configuration files which are generally being screwed by YAST. I prefer to compile and install such packages as MySQL, Apache, Mozilla, kernel, modutils, ALSA, CUPS and other directly from its sources, not from SuSE CD/DVD. SuSE have a bad habit of such excessive customization that later you won't be able to upgrade some packages from its direct vendors. It's still a mystery for me. Why binaries, libraries and configuration files for third party applications can't be left in its default locations defined by the vendors? Alex -------------------
. Ever since I reinstalled 8 clean (after an initial clean install of 8 that was bad), I have not been able to complete a shutdown. Always hangs on Shutting Down Networking.
But today I went to add a Gateway: Y2|Network/Basic|NetworkCardConfig|Edit|Edit|Routingand add Gateway. OK|Next|Finish
It HANGS ON DEACTIVATE LOCAL NETWORK! And I have to kill it! WTF IS WRONG?
WHY HAS VMWARE GUEST QUIT TALKING TO THE NETWORK? WHY DOES KONQ BYPASS JUNKBUASTER? AND WHY HAS PRINTING NEVER WORKED?!? I MUST BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE AND FSCKING PRINT!!
I have used Suse for a year and Mandrake for two years before that, and this new BROKENNESS is INTOLERABLE. HUNDREDS of things WRONG. I have a mortgage investment banking business to run, and most of the past month has been fully given over to Suse 8!
I know those guys are busy. But this is an unusable product! Hundreds of problems I simply don't have time to chase down! Whoops, KMAlL HAS NOW COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN ALL ITS SETTINGS, so now I have to completely configure it in order to send this message.
Caldera is a mess. RedHat has always been buggy. I am just this close to chucking it and going to Apple. I MUST GET WORK DONE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE!!
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. After 4 days down, I'm back on 7.3 . 8 is *not* ready. Every weekend has been fully given-over to Suse for months now. I'll bet *they're* not this determined. I've used Linux primarily for 3 years, but this is frightening, by any measure. I must DEPEND on my computer. Looking back, it's traditional to have hundreds of problems with new releases, so I hope 8.1 will be usable. If not, it is the end of Linux and beginning of Mac for me. On Wednesday 12 June 2002 12:55, you wrote:
Well, In average it takes me from one to two months with the each new SuSE release to make it usable. Generally I have to fix leftover bugs, find missing/corrupted packages
and manually edit configuration files which are generally being screwed by YAST. I prefer to compile and install such packages as MySQL, Apache, Mozilla, kernel, modutils, ALSA, CUPS and other directly from its sources, not from SuSE CD/DVD. SuSE have a bad habit of such excessive customization that later you won't be able to upgrade some packages from its direct vendors. It's still a mystery for me. Why binaries, libraries and configuration files for third party applications can't be left in its default locations defined by the vendors?
Alex
-------------------
. Ever since I reinstalled 8 clean (after an initial clean install of
8 that was
bad), I have not been able to complete a shutdown. Always hangs on
Shutting
Down Networking.
But today I went to add a Gateway: Y2|Network/Basic|NetworkCardConfig|Edit|Edit|Routingand add Gateway. OK|Next|Finish
It HANGS ON DEACTIVATE LOCAL NETWORK! And I have to kill it! WTF IS WRONG?
WHY HAS VMWARE GUEST QUIT TALKING TO THE NETWORK? WHY DOES KONQ BYPASS JUNKBUASTER? AND WHY HAS PRINTING NEVER WORKED?!? I
MUST BE ABLE
TO COMMUNICATE AND FSCKING PRINT!!
I have used Suse for a year and Mandrake for two years before that,
and this
new BROKENNESS is INTOLERABLE. HUNDREDS of things WRONG. I have a
mortgage
investment banking business to run, and most of the past month has
been fully
given over to Suse 8!
I know those guys are busy. But this is an unusable product!
Hundreds of
problems I simply don't have time to chase down! Whoops, KMAlL HAS
NOW
COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN ALL ITS SETTINGS, so now I have to completely
configure
it in order to send this message.
Caldera is a mess. RedHat has always been buggy. I am just this
close to
chucking it and going to Apple. I MUST GET WORK DONE IN ORDER TO
SURVIVE!!
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- Bombeck's Rule of Medicine: Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died.
I was on Mac OS10 for a while when it came out fresh. I spend more time rebooting than actually working. Now, after almost a year it is pretty stable.
Personally, I would NEVER commit to any ".0" version of any product!! I am a software engineer myself and ".0" versions have become "better" beta versions in the recent past. :(
-Uli
Carl
Well, In average it takes me from one to two months with the each new SuSE release to make it usable. Generally I have to fix leftover bugs, find missing/corrupted packages
and manually edit configuration files which are generally being screwed by YAST. I prefer to compile and install such packages as MySQL, Apache, Mozilla, kernel, modutils, ALSA, CUPS and other directly from its sources, not from SuSE CD/DVD. SuSE have a bad habit of such excessive customization that later you won't be able to upgrade some packages from its direct vendors. It's still a mystery for me. Why binaries, libraries and configuration files for third party applications can't be left in its default locations defined by the vendors?
Alex
-------------------
. Ever since I reinstalled 8 clean (after an initial clean install of
8 that was
bad), I have not been able to complete a shutdown. Always hangs on
Shutting
Down Networking.
But today I went to add a Gateway: Y2|Network/Basic|NetworkCardConfig|Edit|Edit|Routingand add Gateway. OK|Next|Finish
It HANGS ON DEACTIVATE LOCAL NETWORK! And I have to kill it! WTF IS WRONG?
WHY HAS VMWARE GUEST QUIT TALKING TO THE NETWORK? WHY DOES KONQ BYPASS JUNKBUASTER? AND WHY HAS PRINTING NEVER WORKED?!? I
MUST BE ABLE
TO COMMUNICATE AND FSCKING PRINT!!
I have used Suse for a year and Mandrake for two years before that,
and this
new BROKENNESS is INTOLERABLE. HUNDREDS of things WRONG. I have a
mortgage
investment banking business to run, and most of the past month has
been fully
given over to Suse 8!
I know those guys are busy. But this is an unusable product!
Hundreds of
problems I simply don't have time to chase down! Whoops, KMAlL HAS
NOW
COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN ALL ITS SETTINGS, so now I have to completely
configure
it in order to send this message.
Caldera is a mess. RedHat has always been buggy. I am just this
close to
chucking it and going to Apple. I MUST GET WORK DONE IN ORDER TO
SURVIVE!!
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- Bombeck's Rule of Medicine: Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
I have experienced mixed results. On my home computer, without network requirements, 8.0 works fairly well. I do have a problem with printer margins on my Canon 4300 not holding settings, cut and paste from Everybuddy to KMail doesn't work, import from Outlook Express to KMail doesn't work, and a couple of other anomalies ... but it is home and not mission-critical. Here at the office the problems are both mission-critical and more significant, and a black eye on my effort to promote Linux versus M$ Windows (Mac is not an option). At work I have additional problems with 8.0 failing to handle the Hansol Magellan 500A monitor -- patterns of garbage appear in different locations on the screen in most applications, including the SuSE/KDE desktop. I also have problems with 8.0 recognizing and communicating with the Lexmark printer across the network across the room, seeing folders on the network, Konquorer crashing, etc. ... in addition to the same problems listed re. my home computer. I am disappointed and run Yast2 auto-update every few days in hopes that some of these problems will slowly start torwards resolution. I am grateful for the KDE 3.01 update and the security updates and have observed a noticeable improvement in the originally sluggish performance. SuSE 8.0 is typical of a major release rushed to market, long on features and whiz-bang new concepts but short on thorough quality control and testing ... I am happy to serve as a post-beta tester and sure look forward to 8.1 so that I may treat SuSE as a read-for-prime-time product ... for now I am avoiding showing it off because it undermines my efforts to promote it! doc
After 4 days down, I'm back on 7.3 . 8 is *not* ready. Every weekend has been fully given-over to Suse for months now. I'll bet *they're* not this determined.
I've used Linux primarily for 3 years, but this is frightening, by any measure. I must DEPEND on my computer.
Looking back, it's traditional to have hundreds of problems with new releases, so I hope 8.1 will be usable.
If not, it is the end of Linux and beginning of Mac for me.
Alex
On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 06:12:02PM -0400, Dr. David M. Colburn wrote:
I have experienced mixed results. On my home computer, without network requirements, 8.0 works fairly well. I do have a problem with printer margins on my Canon 4300 not holding settings, cut and paste from Everybuddy to KMail doesn't work, import from Outlook Express to KMail doesn't work, and a couple of other anomalies ... but it is home and not mission-critical. [snippage]
I have been critical of parts of 8.0 since it was released, but overall, I haven't had major problems except with the wireless PCMCIA stuff. 8.0 had the most significant changes to plumbing in SuSE that I've seen in any release and considering that, it could have been much worse. I use it for all my work and at home and it works for me. After 8.0 was up an running, I evaluated Red Hat 7.3 and Debian Woody on the same machine (different partition) and I find SuSE 8.0 superior to both. Does it stand up to Mac OSX? I don't know, I don't have a current Mac. My guess is that Mac OSX is more polished but less flexible and definately more expensive. Best Regards, Keith -- LPIC-2, MCSE, N+ Linux soldat -- 8.0 SuSE panzer division Got spam? Get spastic http://spastic.sourceforge.net
Alex Daniloff wrote: ...
It's still a mystery for me. Why binaries, libraries and configuration files for third party applications can't be left in its default locations defined by the vendors?
Because we have ca. 2200 packages and need some ORDER. Plus, few put there stuff into the FHS defined locations. If SuSE Linux were just a copy&paste collection of packages we could write a script that collects those packages from their respective servers, call "./configure, make, make install", package, and go home, and SuSE Linux would cost $2.99. We attempt to make a whole product out of it instead, consistent in itself so that it's actually usable for people other than those who LOVE spending time administering their system. Our target are people USING it. I guess there's no point in commercially targetting the first group of people since they can all download and compile everything themselves (incl. they are willing and have the time, there are also people who are able but not willing). Michael
Boom!!!! The bomb of truth has hit. Critics have been silenced.:) On Wed, 2002-06-12 at 13:55, Michael Hasenstein wrote:
Alex Daniloff wrote:
...
It's still a mystery for me. Why binaries, libraries and configuration files for third party applications can't be left in its default locations defined by the vendors?
Because we have ca. 2200 packages and need some ORDER. Plus, few put there stuff into the FHS defined locations.
If SuSE Linux were just a copy&paste collection of packages we could write a script that collects those packages from their respective servers, call "./configure, make, make install", package, and go home, and SuSE Linux would cost $2.99.
We attempt to make a whole product out of it instead, consistent in itself so that it's actually usable for people other than those who LOVE spending time administering their system. Our target are people USING it. I guess there's no point in commercially targetting the first group of people since they can all download and compile everything themselves (incl. they are willing and have the time, there are also people who are able but not willing).
Michael
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On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:55:26 -0700
Michael Hasenstein
participants (8)
-
Alex Daniloff -
Carl -
Digger Maus -
Dr. David M. Colburn -
Keith Winston -
Michael Hasenstein -
Peter Akre -
Terence McCarthy