On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:43:43 +0800, Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, Rauch Christian wrote:

[...]

...

DVD Support will not be in any of the Releases because of patents and restriction. MP3-Support will probably be downloadable with YOU like it was with previous releases

We won't offer a multimedia pack via YOU this time, as we have MP3 support out-of-the-box with SUSE Linux 10.0.

So you mean only the retail version here? The OSS users have to manually download packages for mp3 support since there is no YOU this time?

Regards Christoph

-- Cheers

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, houghi wrote:

On Sat, Sep 24, 2005 at 10:43:43AM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote:

...

We won't offer a multimedia pack via YOU this time, as we have MP3 support out-of-the-box with SUSE Linux 10.0.

I suppose adding a mirror as instalation source will do?

Correct, we will have a special tree (the one that we already have for the kernel-*-nongpl and firmware stuff), which contains the packages that are needed to get mp3 playback support. Regards Christoph

2005/9/24, houghi :

On Sat, Sep 24, 2005 at 10:26:01AM +0300, HG wrote:

...

Hello!

I think this is a FAQ - but I could not find a clear answer from Novells or open SUSE's web sites.

What are the differences between Novell SUSE Linux 10.0 and Open SUSE Linux OSS 10.0?

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tip/16015.html

Why this package is not on OSS: mediawiki-1.4.7-4.i586.rpm open-xchange-0. 8.0.5-5.i586.rpm thats GPLs packages -- Marcel Mourguiart

Hello! Thanks for the answers. I guess Google didn't find the archives of this list, but I did find this:

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tip/16015.html

... which was exactly the kind of thing that really didn't help me at all. So let's see if I got this right. For OSS version - There is no support for things like MP3's (and lots of others) - There is no YOU - There is no 3D support -> getting the OSS version to work, one would need to be able to find, download manually and install the non-OSS software manually For Novell SUSE Linux 10 - There is MP3 support out of the box - There is YOU - There are installation packages in YOU that let's the users to download Acrobats, Javas and 3D's and so on -> getting the Novell version to work, one needs to install and then go to Online Update and while updating the system downloading some packages. Seems like the Novell version is way closer to the goal of being the most easily usable Linux out there. And I mean way closer. I mean the first step in usable distribution is the installation. And if you do not get what you expect (these days), it's not going to make it. I mean, I have used Linux for long time and even though I have administrated a Linux box (at home) for only less than year, I think I can find (pieces of) information (from Google) and even follow it (while it's usually very cryptic and to wrong version etc.) and get things working... but I find that I do not have the time for that anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a OSS version working. It is kind of sad, that to get the OSS version usable in normal home environment, one must go out and install non OSS software - let's just hope this changes over the time. So I guess I'll be searching for Novell/SUSE distributor... -- HG.

HG, On Saturday 24 September 2005 21:39, HG wrote:

Hello!

....

For Novell SUSE Linux 10 - ... - There are installation packages in YOU that let's the users to download Acrobats, Javas and 3D's and so on - ...

PDFs can be viewed using any one of several open-source viewers. They don't have all the functionality of Adobe Reader (the proper name, now; Acrobat is the PDF editing and creation software from Adobe), but they get the job done.

...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a OSS version working. It is kind of sad, that to get the OSS version usable in normal home environment, one must go out and install non OSS software - let's just hope this changes over the time.

I don't see what the alternative is. If there is no open-source software for a given class of application or if the required algorithms are patented, then by definition an pure open-source distribution will omit such applications. How can it be otherwise?

So I guess I'll be searching for Novell/SUSE distributor...

What could be worse, eh? You'll have to put some cash into the system that provides the software you want.

-- HG.

Randall Schulz

But, just b/c OpenSuse is built on OSS shouldn't mean it has to be difficult to install/interoperate with non-OSS software.... or so is my opinion. Gentoo is good at creating a seamless link in portage. I guess what it comes down to is that most users are going to install things like mp3 libraries anyway so why make it difficult when you can create a clear, easy way for them to get access? In my opinion, that's how you grow a community. HG wrote:

Hi!

On 9/25/05, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a OSS version working. It is kind of sad, that to get the OSS version usable in normal home environment, one must go out and install non OSS software - let's just hope this changes over the time.

I don't see what the alternative is. If there is no open-source software for a given class of application or if the required algorithms are patented, then by definition an pure open-source distribution will omit such applications.

How can it be otherwise?

Like I said, I hope the situation will change so that some day in the future I can get a working system that does the stuff that is generally needed for home computing and consist only of OSS software. Of course, it may be that there is never such time. But I hope otherwise. And I mean this from the task point of view, not algorithms or such.

...

...

So I guess I'll be searching for Novell/SUSE distributor...

What could be worse, eh? You'll have to put some cash into the system that provides the software you want.

The fact that there is none here. Simple as that. (A few €'s for a working system is much less that spending hours and hours with google trying to get the system up and running...)

-- HG.

On 9/25/05, HG wrote: I might be wrong here, but this is how I understand it :

So let's see if I got this right.

For OSS version - There is no support for things like MP3's (and lots of others)

Correct - no proprietary stuff included - mp3 is proprietary, as is avi AFAIK

- There is no YOU

No, YOU is there. (at least in RC1)

- There is no 3D support Only no 3D support for NVidia and maybe ATI. You will still have 3D support for graphic cards that have OSS 3D support, like the older ATI cards and other vendors.

-> getting the OSS version to work, one would need to be able to find, download manually and install the non-OSS software manually

No, you just add additional Sources to YaST and it will have access to that. The main difference that I see is that OpenSuSE will not include the proprietary stuff on the downloadable iso images. If you need them, you need to get them from non-Novell sources, which you add to YaST. Some Propriatary stuff will be included in the Novell SuSE 10.0, because you pay for it and thus indirectly you pay for the license fees required for distrobution of these. I basically comes down to the fact that Novell may not legally distribute certain proprietary stuff (like the mp3 decoders) with a product without paying some fees (which is transferred to the person who buy Novell SuSE again) This is similar to Debian. The Debian iso images contains no propriatary stuff. If you want mp3 support, you need to add an additional source to apt to get hold of it. I don't see that Novell is trying to screw the OSS community, they are just covering thier legal side. It also makes sense for Novell to include certain non-essential, cool-to-have stuff in Novell SuSE, because you have to have an incentive to buy it, but I don't see that OpenSuSE is crippled or non-usable or anything. The Beta's and Release Candidate that I installed includes everything you normally need (within legal boundaries) Do I understand this correct? -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.za.org ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~

On 9/25/05, jdd wrote:

Andre Truter wrote:

...

The main difference that I see is that OpenSuSE will not include the proprietary stuff on the downloadable iso images. If you need them, you need to get them from non-Novell sources, which you add to YaST.

and as you have to download the iso images, you can as well do the same for proprietary stuff if you want so...

There is a difference between including something on a CD (or iso image, which is basically still a CD - just an image if it) and making files available for download. I know that the OpenOffice people here in SA had problems with including java on a CD that contains OpenOffice. The java license prohibits it. You need to jump through a bunch of hoops. And then the other point is that if openSuSE included proprietary stuff as part of the iso, it would not be open anymore, as it contains parts that are not open, then it will just be SuSE. There is an issue with calling something OpenSource if it includes non-OSS parts. It is legally not OpenSource anymore as the licenses of the closed-source parts disqualifies it. This might sound like splitting hairs, but lots of people will take you on if you call someting OpenSource and it is not. I am not sure if there are serious legal implications there, but I am sure Bruce Perens will have something to say about it and ESR do own a lot of guns... :-) -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.za.org ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~

Michael Loeffler wrote:

We will offer a SUSE Linux 10.0 for free downlaod (from October 6th on) under Released Version. This is a subset of the retail box and comes with propietary software and will be very close to the goal beeing the most easily usable Linux out there. Under the same section SUSE Linux 10.0 OSS is offered as well.This two versions receive bugfixes via YOU. So we offer choice and everybody should find the version suitable for him

looks like this add a level of complexity :-( what will be the difference between SUSE Linux 10.0 downloadable and SUSE LInux OSS 10.0 also downloadable ? I guess proprietary free software like acrobat or java? so there will be three downloadable versions, with the 10.1 alpha added to the boxed version. quite a lot. I think it would be far more simple to have only a "non OSS" ftp repository jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

houghi wrote:

On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 02:22:02PM +0200, jdd wrote:

...

looks like this add a level of complexity :-(

Not more then what there already is, at least not really.

...

what will be the difference between SUSE Linux 10.0 downloadable and SUSE LInux OSS 10.0 also downloadable ? I guess proprietary free software like acrobat or java?

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tip/16015.html CD's and DVD Book 90 days (?) support

there no cd nor dvd nor book (probably nor support) on the _downloadable_ SUSE Linux.

...

so there will be three downloadable versions, with the 10.1 alpha added to the boxed version. quite a lot.

No there will be two versions. 10.0 and 10.0 OSS.

two "stable" if you want.

...

I think it would be far more simple to have only a "non OSS" ftp repository

It would indeed be easier to have just one repository for everything (including stuff that is on e.g. the guru and packman repo's)

I understand SUSE want's to have a separate "non completely oss" system (not to mention the legally unavailable stuff), but it should be more simple to have the SUSE Linus OSS + in an other repository what makes the SUSE Linux (non OSS, these naming are awfull :-() this would make 5 cd less for the mirrors... jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr

On Monday 26 September 2005 6:11 am, Michael Loeffler wrote:

This two versions receive bugfixes via YOU.

Hi, What's the policty for YOU updates? I know about 3 kind of updates: 1- bug-fix 2- security-fix 3- enhancement I used to think that SUSE only provided security fixes. For example, if there's a new Firefox version (just plain new enhancements) ...Will it available as an update? Thanks, Jorge

On Monday 26 September 2005 8:34 am, Marcus Meissner wrote:

We usually do:

1 - security fixes      (at security teams discretion) 2 - (critical) bugfixes (at project manager discretion)

Thanks for the fast response Marcus. Exactly what I wanted to know :) Jorge