On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 12:46:32 -0400 ken wrote:

On 07/18/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

When I boot Leap 15 the vertical pipe symbol doesn't work. Instead it prints '>' and backslash prints '<'. I have a UK keyboard that has always worked fine. So I go into YaST/Hardware/System Keyboard and I see that it says I have English(UK) selected. So I type in the Test box and see >< instead of what I should see. So I select English(US) and then select English(UK) again and type again and this time see |\.

Which would be fine except this happens every time I boot. Which is very annoying. Anybody seen this?

Yeah, went through something similar.  Yast could never fix my keybd situation.  It's a deal with X... which Yast doesn't seem to comprehend.  I hand edited /etc/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf and that fixed it.

Thanks for the reply. I assume you meant /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf ? Mine already has Option "XkbLayout" "gb" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" when it's misbehaving and the date on the file is Mar 15 2016. Just as YaST already claims to be using UK keyboard when it isn't.

Somebody ought to submit a bug report on this, someone more sanguine about bug reports than I.

I will if nobody knows what the problem is and already knows a bug report. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/18/2018 02:28 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

I will if nobody knows what the problem is and already knows a bug report. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1101736

Dave, This may very well be desktop dependent. Better add which desktop you are using to the bug report. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 10:35:15 +0100 Dave Howorth wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 02:10:46 -0500 "David C. Rankin" wrote:

...

On 07/18/2018 02:28 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

...

I will if nobody knows what the problem is and already knows a bug report. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1101736

Dave,

This may very well be desktop dependent. Better add which desktop you are using to the bug report.

Hi David,

It does say "I'm using LXDE." in the middle of the report. :)

Just to update this. It seems for sure that it is LXDE that is overwriting my keyboard setting when it starts up. If there's anybody else that uses LXDE on Leap 15.0 I'd be grateful if they could confirm this in the bug. Choose anything other than a US keyboard layout (pc105) in YaST, reboot and check what keyboard you have after logging in again. I'm aware that there is an optional keyboard management component that I could load into my lxpanel in order to change my keyboard layout, but that's not what I want. I just want LXDE to leave my existing choice of keyboard alone, exactly as I've set it for the whole machine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 23:48:48 +0200 Aaron Digulla wrote:

On 08/02/18 21:20, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Just to update this. It seems for sure that it is LXDE that is overwriting my keyboard setting when it starts up. If there's anybody else that uses LXDE on Leap 15.0 I'd be grateful if they could confirm this in the bug. Choose anything other than a US keyboard layout (pc105) in YaST, reboot and check what keyboard you have after logging in again.

I'm aware that there is an optional keyboard management component that I could load into my lxpanel in order to change my keyboard layout, but that's not what I want. I just want LXDE to leave my existing choice of keyboard alone, exactly as I've set it for the whole machine.

I couldn't find another way than using the IBus settings in the panel.

It would be great if that tool would default to use the same keyboard than the one selected during installation. I added my info to the bug. Let's hope this gets fixed because it breaks OpenSUSE for anyone who uses LXDE and doesn't have an US English keyboard.

Thanks Aaron! I didn't even know that ibus existed, let alone why it should be installed. Anyway, I looked at its configuration GUI and saw that it says US keyboard!!! Further, it doesn't even offer the choice of a vanilla UK keyboard that I can see. So I just deleted the ibus and libibus packages and their dependencies and rebooted. Lo and behold, my system has a UK keyboard without having to jump through magic hoops every time to restore it. So it seems I was wrong to say that it was LXDE. It does seem like it is ibus that is the guilty party, and as far as I can see it is completely useless software unless you have particular multilingual requirements. So why is it installed? I'll update the bug. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 08:39:42 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Dave Howorth [08-04-18 08:17]:

...

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 23:48:48 +0200 Aaron Digulla wrote:

...

On 08/02/18 21:20, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Just to update this. It seems for sure that it is LXDE that is overwriting my keyboard setting when it starts up. If there's anybody else that uses LXDE on Leap 15.0 I'd be grateful if they could confirm this in the bug. Choose anything other than a US keyboard layout (pc105) in YaST, reboot and check what keyboard you have after logging in again.

I'm aware that there is an optional keyboard management component that I could load into my lxpanel in order to change my keyboard layout, but that's not what I want. I just want LXDE to leave my existing choice of keyboard alone, exactly as I've set it for the whole machine.

I couldn't find another way than using the IBus settings in the panel.

It would be great if that tool would default to use the same keyboard than the one selected during installation. I added my info to the bug. Let's hope this gets fixed because it breaks OpenSUSE for anyone who uses LXDE and doesn't have an US English keyboard.

Thanks Aaron!

I didn't even know that ibus existed, let alone why it should be installed. Anyway, I looked at its configuration GUI and saw that it says US keyboard!!! Further, it doesn't even offer the choice of a vanilla UK keyboard that I can see.

So I just deleted the ibus and libibus packages and their dependencies and rebooted. Lo and behold, my system has a UK keyboard without having to jump through magic hoops every time to restore it.

and perhaps you have jumped the gun or been a little impulsive. not always the best approach to remove packages that you didn't specifically select to install. did you bother to look for information about ibus and it's purpose and/or how to configure it.

Standard snarky reply from Patrick I see. But with a little useful information. Yes of course I looked for information about it. And determined that it's an input method and I know that I don't need input methods. But what's the problem with removing the packages? YaST tells me what else it needs to remove so the risk is pretty low of breaking something. And if it did break something it's easy enough to roll the change back. For anybody else who's still reading, can you tell me whether I can use zypper (or whatever else) to tell me what package brought ibus in, possibly via a recommends?

archwiki provides a pretty good write-up about ibus: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/IBus

Here's the morsel of information. Thanks :) It is indeed a useful collection of information about a package I no longer have installed.

...

So it seems I was wrong to say that it was LXDE. It does seem like it is ibus that is the guilty party, and as far as I can see it is completely useless software unless you have particular multilingual requirements. So why is it installed?

this is not the only place to find answers.

Indeed not, but I see that you want to keep hidden any other suggestions you might have had.

...

I'll update the bug.

???

Why the question marks? Surely you've read the thread? Not just barged in uninformed? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-04 14:15, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 23:48:48 +0200 Aaron Digulla <> wrote:

...

On 08/02/18 21:20, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Just to update this. It seems for sure that it is LXDE that is overwriting my keyboard setting when it starts up. If there's anybody else that uses LXDE on Leap 15.0 I'd be grateful if they could confirm this in the bug. Choose anything other than a US keyboard layout (pc105) in YaST, reboot and check what keyboard you have after logging in again.

I'm aware that there is an optional keyboard management component that I could load into my lxpanel in order to change my keyboard layout, but that's not what I want. I just want LXDE to leave my existing choice of keyboard alone, exactly as I've set it for the whole machine.

I couldn't find another way than using the IBus settings in the panel.

It would be great if that tool would default to use the same keyboard than the one selected during installation. I added my info to the bug. Let's hope this gets fixed because it breaks OpenSUSE for anyone who uses LXDE and doesn't have an US English keyboard.

Thanks Aaron!

I didn't even know that ibus existed, let alone why it should be installed. Anyway, I looked at its configuration GUI and saw that it says US keyboard!!! Further, it doesn't even offer the choice of a vanilla UK keyboard that I can see.

So I just deleted the ibus and libibus packages and their dependencies and rebooted. Lo and behold, my system has a UK keyboard without having to jump through magic hoops every time to restore it.

Me too. ibus is only needed with non-european (alphabetic?) languages, I believe. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On Sat, 04 Aug 2018 16:08:55 +0200 Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

Op zaterdag 4 augustus 2018 15:55:38 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2018-08-04 14:15, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 23:48:48 +0200 Aaron Digulla <> wrote:

...

On 08/02/18 21:20, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Just to update this. It seems for sure that it is LXDE that is overwriting my keyboard setting when it starts up. If there's anybody else that uses LXDE on Leap 15.0 I'd be grateful if they could confirm this in the bug. Choose anything other than a US keyboard layout (pc105) in YaST, reboot and check what keyboard you have after logging in again.

I'm aware that there is an optional keyboard management component that I could load into my lxpanel in order to change my keyboard layout, but that's not what I want. I just want LXDE to leave my existing choice of keyboard alone, exactly as I've set it for the whole machine.

I couldn't find another way than using the IBus settings in the panel.

It would be great if that tool would default to use the same keyboard than the one selected during installation. I added my info to the bug. Let's hope this gets fixed because it breaks OpenSUSE for anyone who uses LXDE and doesn't have an US English keyboard.

Thanks Aaron!

I didn't even know that ibus existed, let alone why it should be installed. Anyway, I looked at its configuration GUI and saw that it says US keyboard!!! Further, it doesn't even offer the choice of a vanilla UK keyboard that I can see.

So I just deleted the ibus and libibus packages and their dependencies and rebooted. Lo and behold, my system has a UK keyboard without having to jump through magic hoops every time to restore it.

Me too.

ibus is only needed with non-european (alphabetic?) languages, I believe. Why 'believe'? man ibus DESCRIPTION IBus is an Intelligent Input Bus. It is a new input framework for Linux OS. It provides full featured and user friendly input method user interface. It also may help developers to develop input method easily.

I would say that the man page description is singularly uninformative unless you already know what an input method is, and can therefore disregard 'input framework' and treat 'Intelligent Input Bus' as some sort of marketing speak for something to do with one or more input methods. So I think Carlos expressing the level of his knowledge with that clause is entirely reasonable. What would be helpful is any kind of pointer towards knowing how it came to be installed on my system. Was it pulled in as some kind of dependency of some other package (and if so which?) or is it a base package (and if so why?)? Is there any documentation (changelog, perhaps)? And how did it end up breaking my and other peoples' systems? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-04 18:04, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Sat, 04 Aug 2018 16:08:55 +0200 Knurpht-openSUSE <> wrote:

...

Op zaterdag 4 augustus 2018 15:55:38 CEST schreef Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2018-08-04 14:15, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 23:48:48 +0200 Aaron Digulla <> wrote:

...

On 08/02/18 21:20, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

...

...

...

Thanks Aaron!

I didn't even know that ibus existed, let alone why it should be installed. Anyway, I looked at its configuration GUI and saw that it says US keyboard!!! Further, it doesn't even offer the choice of a vanilla UK keyboard that I can see.

So I just deleted the ibus and libibus packages and their dependencies and rebooted. Lo and behold, my system has a UK keyboard without having to jump through magic hoops every time to restore it.

Me too.

ibus is only needed with non-european (alphabetic?) languages, I believe. Why 'believe'?

Because I'm going from memories :-) Maybe "I believe" is an idiom used in my language that does not translate the same meaning to English? That I think that what I say is correct but I'm not 100% sure, so I ask the reader to take it with caution?

...

man ibus DESCRIPTION IBus is an Intelligent Input Bus. It is a new input framework for Linux OS. It provides full featured and user friendly input method user interface. It also may help developers to develop input method easily.

I would say that the man page description is singularly uninformative unless you already know what an input method is, and can therefore disregard 'input framework' and treat 'Intelligent Input Bus' as some sort of marketing speak for something to do with one or more input methods. So I think Carlos expressing the level of his knowledge with that clause is entirely reasonable.

Yep, thanks. That is exactly the case, the explanation of what it is leaves me always lacking (it is not the first time I'm in doubt about removing ibus). Also I have the foggy memory of another bug with ibus years ago and the recommendation/knowledge then was that, unless you were using a language such as Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, etc, we could safely remove it. If you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus the photo is using a pin'yin example. And if you then look at the input methods available, this impression is confirmed. In my case, I have removed it from my tiny new laptop, because it uses a "sizeable" space in the systray that I can use for other more useful things, perhaps. And it does not appear to add anything I need currently.

What would be helpful is any kind of pointer towards knowing how it came to be installed on my system. Was it pulled in as some kind of dependency of some other package (and if so which?) or is it a base package (and if so why?)? Is there any documentation (changelog, perhaps)? And how did it end up breaking my and other peoples' systems?

A pattern and a bug? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)