On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Mikhail Ramendik wrote:

The X99 uses the LGA 2011-3 socket, which is a high-end socket. This pretty much limits you to the Core i7 CPU (and the more expensive server versions). Unless you buy a used CPU, it seems like you won't get much lower than the 379 for the CPU. Moreover, this socket has no provisioning for integrated graphics so you would have to buy some graphics card too. Honestly I do not see this motherboard as a good option.

In my opinion, Intel integrated graphics is the single best option for Linux if you are not interested in serious gaming etc. and especially if you are on a tight budget. Intel contributes its drivers to the kernel and X.Org so you never need any binaries. You install, it works. And no separate graphics means no separate fan means a quieter system. For this reason I always pick Intel for my Linux machines (I'm not a gamer nor a 3D designer). I am writing this on a Pentium G2120 box with an ASRock B75 Pro3-M motherboard (a 2013 build).

And honestly this is what I would do in your place, too. Get a cheaper motherboard with Socket LGA1151, supporting the same DDR4 memory that your big models use. Get the same model of DIMMs so you can swap them around if necessary. And get an Intel Core i3 CPU. Or i5 for more power, whatever, but I think i3 and more RAM is possibly a better idea( unless you intend to compile stuff on it). Use integrated graphics. Enjoy.

Fantastic info. Thanks This is what I've got picked out right now. http://pcpartpicker.com/list/RXQD3F (or see below) That's the same Case and RAM I have in my expensive tower ($2K). (Likely overkill, but I like the idea of that.) I've got a HDD/SSD to throw in and a USB DVD to install from. I'll need to get a SATA cable I assume. Any other cables, etc. I need to buy? Anything you see I'm choosing poorly? ==== parts list if === CPU Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor $179.99 Motherboard ASRock H110M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $49.99 Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory $112.99 Case Thermaltake Core V51 ATX Mid Tower Case $97.61 Power Supply CoolMax 300W Micro ATX Power Supply $21.88 Total:$462.46 === Many thanks Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 01:02, Felix Miata wrote:

I bought an Asrock once. It won't happen again. It lasted about two weeks past its warranty expiration. AFAICT, Asrock is a lower tier brand, like eCS, and a bunch of brands that no longer exist.

My last mobo purchase, 9 months ago, is what I'm typing from: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130699

Well I do use an ASRock motherboard but YMMV - and I was not using it long enough to comment, really. MSI might be a good idea.

with this CPU from eBay for $46: http://ark.intel.com/products/77773/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G3220-3M-Cache-3...

There seem to be different schools of thought on whether one needs power in the CPU or not. I do use a G2120 (this same kind but from 2013), and I would honestly pick one of those and spend more on PSU and CPU fan to keep the thing silent. But if Greg wants an i5 he wants an i5.

Are you sure you're up for a piece of the Skylake on Linux grief some of us have been reading about?

Did a quick google. There seem to be graphics issues that cause hangs unless you disable hardware acceleration. And they seem to be fixed in kernel 4.6. And kernel 4.6 was released less than a month ago. There also seem to be power management issues but these don't apply to desktop. According to this link https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/517282-How-i-can-install-kernel-4... one can already get a "vanilla" 4.6 kernel on Leap. And Skylake is his only option if he wants DDR4. Amd he wants DDR4 so that he can use the same memory as his higher end stations. I honestly think this is worth the risk, because Intel is known to work on its Linux drivers, so even if one has to disable acceleration temporarily it should not be too long.

Doesn't look like it's an 80Plus.

I set a price floor of about $30-35 on power supplies I buy. Even with the CoolMax name I'm skeptical of a price that low for 300W.

I've already posted a treatise on PSUs and CPU fans :) -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 02:41, Felix Miata wrote:

...

And Skylake is his only option if he wants DDR4. Amd he wants DDR4 so that he can use the same memory as his higher end stations. I honestly think this is worth the risk, because Intel is known to work on its Linux drivers, so even if one has to disable acceleration temporarily it should not be too long.

Intel's contribution to the FOSS video driver seems to be vested almost entirely in a very heavily overloaded Chris Wilson. Intel's driver has been stuck at "2.99.917" for about 20 months.

As I understand from what I google, the Skylake changes need kernel work not X.org driver work? And Chris Wilson is still one more compared to the alternatives from NVidia and AMD/ATI? Though I am not really sure about the latter.

OTOH and NAICT, it doesn't seem to be common knowledge that Intel gfx users have two competent drivers to choose from on Linux. The modeset driver built into Xorg since 1.17.x is supposed to be good for all of the big three gfxchip lines, as long as the user's gfxchip is non-antique, somewhere in the 8-9 years old or less range. I'm using modeset for all my installations that qualify with new enough server and new enough gfxchip, with no gfx performance issues that I've as yet become aware of.

But this means one lives without DRI/3D at all? Might be a good stopgap for Skylake, I don't know enough about that. -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2016-06-10 04:39, Greg Freemyer wrote:

It is going to be low-end server that can be counted on to be on 24-hours a day.

Then the power supply should be "higher" end. And fans, and hard disks... One trick to get a lower price is /not/ to use the most recent CPU family, and then not the faster CPU of the family. Can compensate getting more RAM instead. Another consideration in the final cost is the electricity bill. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAldadtUACgkQja8UbcUWM1yoNgEAjsf5JDawjIsReiuAR8lbY2+k HxATwsAChdAfVlFYqqMA/2vzQz2Bvtjv4QH3mgkru4kncH4qCuVheYii7pTTb0XB =WFdo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 10/06/2016 10:14, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

Another consideration in the final cost is the electricity bill.

use a laptop. Low electricity and UPS for the same price jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-06-10 19:52 (UTC+0200):

...

...

Another consideration in the final cost is the electricity bill.

...

use a laptop. Low electricity and UPS for the same price

Actually, that's what I do. :-) You also get a compact display and keyboard.

Both are handicaps that make them little better than useless to some people, e.g. touch typists, and people who value their limited eyesight. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Mikhail Ramendik composed on 2016-06-10 20:07 (UTC+0100):

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

You also get a compact display and keyboard.

...

Both are handicaps that make them little better than useless to some people, e.g. touch typists, and people who value their limited eyesight.

Well, I don't see the problem if the laptop has a digital monitor output (HDMI/DVI/DisplayPort). You can connect your own stuff and just ignore the laptop's. Better yet some have docking stations.

Great, two keyboards per PC to catch coffee spills and hairballs. :-p Last I remember, none of the DEs had a decent solution to problems caused by typical pixel density differences between laptop screens and external displays. It's a can of worms better avoided, especially by those with less than outstanding vision. And, when did longevity of laptops quit being less than half that of desktops? A (modular) PC can usually be fixed, and quickly, with generic parts, when something breaks. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 21:00, Yamaban wrote:

*IF* you want to use laptop HW, please inform your self about the sort of "Intel NUC", "Gigabyte BRIX", or similar. Much easier to get into than a real laptop, and still below 65W max in most versions, idle below 15W by most.

But they're pretty expensive, and don't have a built-in UPS. On the other hand, a garden variety desktop can become as expensive if one tries to make it silent... -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2016-06-10 20:36, Felix Miata wrote:

Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-06-10 19:52 (UTC+0200):

...

...

...

Another consideration in the final cost is the electricity bill.

...

...

use a laptop. Low electricity and UPS for the same price

...

Actually, that's what I do. :-) You also get a compact display and keyboard.

Both are handicaps that make them little better than useless to some people, e.g. touch typists, and people who value their limited eyesight.

Remember that the idea is a home server machine usually accessed from a desktop machine, not directly. But it has keyboard and display, small, which I can use to boot it up. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAldbOTgACgkQja8UbcUWM1w2oQD/RglfqmlY0bhFw668kX612KQd CkHQu1pIGG65Qo2WH0YA/2cDJtfB18J0jN93nmjY/NFlB/OrNSogTTiTfqOJA+N2 =kLhh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer composed on 2016-06-10 16:30 (UTC-0400):

eSata in a laptop is yesterday's news already. I think you will have to buy a used laptop if you want it.

An eSATA socket on a desktop motherboard backpanel is yesterday's news too. Among DDR4 motherboards available from Newegg, prices start at $250 for an ASRock, $540 for anything better, and nothing in mATX. Even without the DDR4 restriction, mATX pickings are very slim, 9 total, all with Q87 or older chipsets. Luckily for those with an eSATA investment and enough unused onboard SATA ports, an eSATA connector or two can be added at nominal cost: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7637 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7638 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Mikhail Ramendik composed on 2016-06-10 02:51 (UTC+0100):

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...I'm using modeset for all my installations that qualify with new enough server and new enough gfxchip, with no gfx performance issues that I've as yet become aware of.

But this means one lives without DRI/3D at all?

I know nothing of the significance of DRI vs. no DRI. I see glimpses of it in package names and logs, but about it and mesa and glx and glamor and yada I don't think I have any need to know what does what or how or why. Of 3D, my eyes gather but two dimensions from a computer display panel, and see computer "3D" as but a way to annoy and make a PC generate more heat. If a gfxchip can output a high definition video in believable colors without stutter or drops, it's as good as I can appreciate. :-) -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

Greg Freemyer composed on 2016-06-09 19:04 (UTC-0400):

...

This is what I've got picked out right now.

...

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/RXQD3F (or see below)

...

CPU Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor $179.99

...

I'll need to get a SATA cable I assume. Any other cables, etc. I need to buy?

Every retail boxed motherboard I've bought since SATA was born shipped with at least two SATA cables.

Great. I've haven't done a build myself in a long time. The last couple I paid $100 to have someone else put it together. This one looks like it should be quick to assemble, so I'll do it myself.

...

Motherboard ASRock H110M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $49.99

I bought an Asrock once. It won't happen again. It lasted about two weeks past its warranty expiration. AFAICT, Asrock is a lower tier brand, like eCS, and a bunch of brands that no longer exist.

I have a X99 ASUS and a X99 AsRock. The AsRock is superior. I'll try it again. At worst, I'm only wasting $50.

My last mobo purchase, 9 months ago, is what I'm typing from: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130699

with this CPU from eBay for $46: http://ark.intel.com/products/77773/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G3220-3M-Cache-3...

Are you sure you're up for a piece of the Skylake on Linux grief some of us have been reading about?

I'll go with Tumbleweed most likely. And I won't doing any graphics locally, so I'll give it a shot. (Occasional downtime is not an issue. Only 2 users, but I don't want to have to have uptime issues too often. And no more than a couple reboots a week.)

...

Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory $112.99

and 16G DDR3 RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226404

The MB only has 2 RAM slots (I think).

...

Case Thermaltake Core V51 ATX Mid Tower Case $97.61

Lotsa case for a micro ATX mobo. :-p

I have 2 of those now. I want to have 4 matching machines at some point so my lab looks like it was designed to be cohesive.

Last time I bought a new case I can't remember. It was probably at least 12 years ago. My ancient Antec cases have hard to strip steel screw threads, unlike all the aluminum cases I've encountered since.

...

Power Supply CoolMax 300W Micro ATX Power Supply $21.88

Doesn't look like it's an 80Plus.

I set a price floor of about $30-35 on power supplies I buy. Even with the CoolMax name I'm skeptical of a price that low for 300W.

Got it, and noise matters. Off to Mikhail's email. Greg

-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/09/2016 07:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

Greg Freemyer composed on 2016-06-09 19:04 (UTC-0400):

...

This is what I've got picked out right now.

...

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/RXQD3F (or see below)

...

CPU Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor $179.99

...

I'll need to get a SATA cable I assume. Any other cables, etc. I need to buy?

Every retail boxed motherboard I've bought since SATA was born shipped with at least two SATA cables.

...

Motherboard ASRock H110M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard $49.99

I bought an Asrock once. It won't happen again. It lasted about two weeks past its warranty expiration. AFAICT, Asrock is a lower tier brand, like eCS, and a bunch of brands that no longer exist.

My last mobo purchase, 9 months ago, is what I'm typing from: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130699

with this CPU from eBay for $46: http://ark.intel.com/products/77773/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G3220-3M-Cache-3...

Are you sure you're up for a piece of the Skylake on Linux grief some of us have been reading about?

...

Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory $112.99

and 16G DDR3 RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226404

...

Case Thermaltake Core V51 ATX Mid Tower Case $97.61

Lotsa case for a micro ATX mobo. :-p

Last time I bought a new case I can't remember. It was probably at least 12 years ago. My ancient Antec cases have hard to strip steel screw threads, unlike all the aluminum cases I've encountered since.

...

Power Supply CoolMax 300W Micro ATX Power Supply $21.88

Doesn't look like it's an 80Plus.

I set a price floor of about $30-35 on power supplies I buy. Even with the CoolMax name I'm skeptical of a price that low for 300W.

Caveat emptor! You get what you pay for. Buy cheap, you get cheap. OK, look, I get it. Budget restraints and all that. But if you buy a better product, at a higher price, it lasts longer and costs less in the long run. You don't have to replace it as soon. I won't buy anything but AMD based computers. It's been my experience that they just work. No fuss. No bother. I don't know how true it is now days but it used to be that an AMD and an Intel of roughly equal specs, the AMD would outperform the Intell. And, never less that a 500 watt power supply for a desktop. if it has less than a 500 watt I replace it with a 500 watt. We have had great luck buying "refurbs" from places like Newegg. We bought Acer, names blacked out but.............., AMD quad cores with all the bells and whistles for the $250 to $300 range. These were "burnt in" and any substandard parts replaced by the "factory". [ Whoever the "factory" is ] They've been running more or less continually for a few years now with no issues. Because we do video editing we replaced the onboard AMD/Radeon graphics with higher end AMD/Radeon graphics boards. We also pumped up the ram and replaced the OEM power supplies with better 500 watt supplies. Altogether about $400 to $500 a computer. OH YES, don't forget extra case fans. You can't have to much air flow through the case -- -- "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." Sydney Friedmann ( MASH 4077 )y equ _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/10/2016 10:55 AM, Mikhail Ramendik wrote:

On 10 June 2016 at 13:38, Billie Walsh wrote:

...

...

I won't buy anything but AMD based computers. It's been my experience that they just work. No fuss. No bother. I don't know how true it is now days but it used to be that an AMD and an Intel of roughly equal specs, the AMD would outperform the Intell. I prefer Intel for Linux because drivers just work. For AMD internal graphics you often have to work on setup.

I've never had an issue with AMD anything working in Linux. This AMD based laptop has no proprietary drives running and the graphics are great. In fact the hard drive was set up on a Gateway AMD dual core, where I used it for a long time, then moved to this AMD quad. It never hiccuped with the move from one computer to the other. -- -- "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." Sydney Friedmann ( MASH 4077 ) _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 20:21, Felix Miata wrote:

That may make sense for gamers with dual multi-fan video cards, 135W or more TDP CPUs and lebenty bazillion storage devices who buy $15 500W PSes or who use the dangerous PS that came in their $29 gamer case. For others, including those who are only satisfied with a quality PS, that's utter nonsense.

On the other hand, for at least the lower rung of quality non-fanless PSes, the difference between 400 W and 500 W is often something like $10 - out of an amount approaching $100. So why bother? I would insist on a quality PS for this machine for three reasons: because of its use as a server, because he is going with an $100 Thermaltake case, because he wants it to be quiet. And I would not go fanless, because of the i5 and presumably HDD. Basically he will get that noise back with the CPU fan and the HDD will not love having no cooling. Now with an i3 and SSD, fanless could work well. (Also this might be an academic debate because he has a great option of putting in the 650W COrsair to have as a backup for the other boxes). -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Mikhail Ramendik wrote:

On 10 June 2016 at 00:04, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

That's the same Case and RAM I have in my expensive tower ($2K). (Likely overkill, but I like the idea of that.)

The case is your aesthetic choice. The RAM is exactly right, because this means you can swap RAM around.

...

I've got a HDD/SSD to throw in and a USB DVD to install from.

I'll need to get a SATA cable I assume. Any other cables, etc. I need to buy?

Can't think of an internal cable at the moment. Make sure you have the right monitor cable. Notably, the motherboard has DVI but not HDMI. If your monitor has DVI, get a DVI cable. If you monitor has HDMI, get a DVI-HDMI cable (they work fine, there is no degradation in quality).

Good to know about DVI => HDMI being fine. I need to buy a HDMI KVM to hook this up to. (I'll end up with 4 towers going to the KVM.)

...

Anything you see I'm choosing poorly?

...

Case Thermaltake Core V51 ATX Mid Tower Case $97.61

Power Supply CoolMax 300W Micro ATX Power Supply $21.88

You are very definitely listing too poor a power supply for this case and this CPU. This sort of PSU works when you are saving every dollar, that would mean a Celeron or Pentium system if we are sticking with Intel (as I think we should) and a basic case too.

In your case, aim for 500W and for silence, which means at least a 120mm fan, preferrably 132-140 mm.

I can't imagine shelling $100 out for a piece of molded steel but saving on the PSU. I'd ideally aim for one of those http://www.custompcguide.net/10-most-quiet-power-supply-units-your-computer-... but some might push you over the $500 mark. I don't really know much about modern PSUs, but here is one made by a well known manufacturer that is $100, has a 120mm fan, and can stop its fan when under low loads: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-RM650-Modular-Supply-Certified/dp/B00EB7UIRS/ . This would let you match an $100 PSU with an $100 case :)

If I'm going to $100, I bought this last time: Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Amazon) Buying one of those would give me a spare and I know it is very quiet.

Another approach is a fanless PSU: https://www.amazon.com/SeaSonic-SS-400FL2-Active-Platinum-Fanless/dp/B003ZWQ... - but this is 400W and I'd only use this if you are planning no expansion at all at all, and ideally witrh an SSD, as an HDD might want a bit of cooling in the case... basically I'd use this one if going for a totally silent system, and I would not put an i5 in that. I'd put a Pentium in that and live with the lower power - a Pentium dissipates less heat and so the fan will be able to run slower. So in you case I would not go fanless.

Yet another option is going full-on aesthetic and matching a Thermaltake case with a Thermaltake PSU. Here's one that has a 140mm fan so I'd say this is *probably* your best bet overall: https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-TOUGHPOWER-Modular-Supply-PS-TPD-0750MPCG... (or perhaps the 550W or 650W option - as the 750W might be underloaded leading to lower efficiency)

Speaking of silence: you did not select a CPU fan. The stock fan will do fine but can be noisy. There are a lot of quieter third-party options depending on how much you are willing to spend. Here's an inexpensive one., the model I am using: https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Freezer-Pro-Rev-Multicompatible/dp/B002G392ZI

But with the case and suggested PSU, we can continue being aesthetic and get a Thermaltake, a probably very quiet 140mm Thermaltake too: https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Intel-Cooler-Cooling-CL-P002-AL14RE-/dp/B... . While LGA1151 is not mentioned on its Amazon page it is mentioned on its Thermaltake page: http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model_Specification.aspx?id=C_00002247 , so I think it is supported all right.

Good info. I do care a lot about noise. 6 computers total in my lab when I'm done and I want to be able to work in there for extended periods.

This stuff pushes you a bit over 500, but probably not critically - and you get a PSU and CPU fan that match your case in both manufacturer and class.

Great suggestions. Thanks

-- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik

Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 03:59, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Can't think of an internal cable at the moment. Make sure you have the right monitor cable. Notably, the motherboard has DVI but not HDMI. If your monitor has DVI, get a DVI cable. If you monitor has HDMI, get a DVI-HDMI cable (they work fine, there is no degradation in quality).

Good to know about DVI => HDMI being fine.

I need to buy a HDMI KVM to hook this up to. (I'll end up with 4 towers going to the KVM.)

There are loads of "automatic HDMI switches with manual override" available on ebay and amazon for a few bob. One is in the mail to me now, as I have a DVI monitor and two boxes (worn and home) with both DVI and HDMI outputs. These HDMI switches are far cheaper than proper KVMs, including DVI ones. I'll report on the results when I get the device and the DVI-HDMI cable. (But I did already use a DVI-HDMI converter).

If I'm going to $100, I bought this last time:

Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Amazon)

Buying one of those would give me a spare and I know it is very quiet.

Yes, certainly a great choice. With this being a spare, I would definitely recommend spending the extra money and getting it instead of the cheap one.

Good info. I do care a lot about noise. 6 computers total in my lab when I'm done and I want to be able to work in there for extended periods.

Then take care to have good quiet PSUs and CPU fans. Generally, the bigger the fan the better, though there are other factors of course. (A bigger fan can move the same amount of air while rotating at a lower speed). -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 04:56, Felix Miata wrote:

Best of luck with "automatic HDMI switches with manual override". It's widespread knowledge that the automatic function of such HDMI switches strongly tends to be broken. Power up a device while another is in active use, and the switch jumps to the just-powered whether you want that or not. With many, every connected device needs to be kept powered up continuously, defeating most display power saving functionality, in order to keep any desired connection intact. Finding an HDMI switch that's fully manual to avoid that possibility seems a hopeless task.

It does not look hopeless to me. Manual HDMI switches are up on eBay for roughly the same money as manual DVI switches. If the very cheap "auto with override" that I have ordered fails me, I am likely to get one of those one day.

Even worse for some people, HDMI switches are painfully slow compared to analog video switches, forever waiting on HDCP handshaking, which can't be reliably counted on to work at all.

But are DVI switches any better, seeing as it's the same protocol on different connections? And analog video in itself is worse. -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 20:34, Felix Miata wrote:

...

It does not look hopeless to me. Manual HDMI switches are up on eBay...

Reference please? Maybe the marketplace has changed since I quit hoping to find one (with more than 4 inputs). When I last looked, automatic was always somewhere in the description of every switch that included manual switching capability.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cee-Tech-2-Port-Manual-Hdmi-Switch-/231527272498?has... http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-3x1-Switch-Manual-Switch-1x3-Splitter-Bi-direct... That's another very quick search, which I did from the US site this time. (I am in Ireland) "Manual HDMI switch" seems to give a lot of results, and perhaps half of them seem to be manual-only. -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 June 2016 at 22:54, Greg Freemyer wrote:

As to the PC, I just placed my order (I stuck to the Skylake i5):

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/dCZJxY

Looks nice! Hope it all works out. -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 6:33 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

I still need a HDMI switch (preferably manual).

Be sure not to get one that requires no power source to function, unless you can find one with an overwhelming number of favorable reviews. Passive HDMI switching is evil.

I'm waiting to hear Mikhail's experience. I'll have 4 HDMI devices day one, but I think I should get 6 or 8 ports if feasible. I'll be using just one of the computers via direct monitor/keyboard/mouse attachment 95% of the time. If I go with a simple HDMI switch, is the idea I would move my keyboard and mouse connection manually? I could do that without too much hassle. Basically only doing it when I need to access bios so it would like bringing a crash cart up to a server in a data center. When I get my overall workstation done, I'll send out a picture. I really like the way it is coming together. I bought the overall frame just a couple months ago. I've got 2 computers on the table top currently, 1 on each end of the table top. Then 2 monitors between them (for dual monitor use), and a nice shelf at shoulder height to put USB 3 devices on (I use a bunch). I'm going to put this PC on the ground directly under one of the existing PCs. I actually bought an extra empty chassis today to sit opposite this one. Should give the workstation and impressive (and yet symmetric) look. I have clients, etc. that drop by and they always want to see my lab. Thus the desire for an impressive case and yet a quiet experience. Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11 June 2016 at 00:32, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Be sure not to get one that requires no power source to function, unless you can find one with an overwhelming number of favorable reviews. Passive HDMI switching is evil.

I'm waiting to hear Mikhail's experience.

This will be delayed. While testing a DVI-HDMI cable that arrived from an ebay seller, I found that one of the sources has DVI and DIsplayPort, not HDMI as I thought. I do not want a third display connection type in my system so I just ordered another DVI-HDMI cable from that same seller. And when that cable is in and the switch itself is in, I will report on my experiences with "the cheapest KVM possible". (I am really trying to avoid spending here.I also ordered a 1 Euro USB Hub from China - so I can put the keyboard and mouse into it and switch them by manual plugging. All because a proper KVM that would handle DVI and USB seems to be about 25 Euro, and needs all the cables anyway. HDMI switches I see, even manual ones, don't seem to have USB).

I'll have 4 HDMI devices day one, but I think I should get 6 or 8 ports if feasible.

I will nto be reporting on 6 to 8 ports. What I ordered has all of three.

If I go with a simple HDMI switch, is the idea I would move my keyboard and mouse connection manually?

That's my plan anyway. I'll get a hub so I can move one connection not two.

I really like the way it is coming together. I bought the overall frame just a couple months ago. I've got 2 computers on the table top currently, 1 on each end of the table top. Then 2 monitors between them (for dual monitor use),

SO you'll need a HDMI switch for every monitor?

I actually bought an extra empty chassis today to sit opposite this one. Should give the workstation and impressive (and yet symmetric) look.

You're really going for looks, yay :) Perhaps put a RAID storage server in there or something? To have no noise, an SSD RAID storage server with a fanless PSU... and a fanless CPU too, though I seem to be able to find those in Mini ITX motherboards only. A google seems to say they would fit in an ATX case but I have no personal experience with them. Make this storage-only and never mind the Intel Atom performance? (And now I want a silent PC but don't want to go buying a new PSU as yet... In another thread I already optimised my CPU fan so it makes basically no noise, though could not stop it. Somehow my 2009 Akasa PaxPower 400w PSU got noisy. I probably need to try oiling the fan, after so many years. It's a 12 cm fan with auto thermal control, and the system does not load it a lot, it really should be quiet). -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 24 June 2016 at 22:44, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

...

...

Be sure not to get one that requires no power source to function, unless you can find one with an overwhelming number of favorable reviews. Passive HDMI switching is evil.

I'm waiting to hear Mikhail's experience. Have you had any luck with a HDMI switch? I've got my new PC put together. I don't have openSUSE on it yet, but it boots.

I'm out of town for the weekend, but hope to test things out early next week. Already a pain to physically change out the HDMI cables to the monitor.

Well, I have now installed the passive HDMI switch, and it seems to work for me. It is a cheap passive HDMI switch. 3 inputs, 1 output. I got it here: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141951112096?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ; this is an EU seller, but of course there are a lot of similar devices in the US. (It is even cheaper from China but that takes way too long). Here is what I did: - Connected the output to my monitor using a DVI-HDMI cable. (Philips 190x6, 1280x1024) - Connected Input 2 to my desktop (ASRock B75 Pro3 motherboard) using a usual HDMI cable; the motherboard has an HDMI connector. This is the OpenSUSE box. - Powered up the computer. The monitor started working as normal. OpenSUSE booted. - Connected Input 3 to the docking station of a Thinkpad W530 laptop (my work machine, running Windows 7). Switched keyboard/mouse (they are now on a USB 2.0 hub) to the Thinkpad. Powered it up and the monitor immediately switched to the Thinkpad. - While it was booting I pressed the button on the HDMI switch and it was back to the OpenSUSE box. At that point there was a "Plasma has stopped" (or "crashed"? don't remember) message on the screen. I switched the keyboard/mouse back to the OpenSUSE box and closed the message. The OpenSUSE box appeared to be working normally. - Switched back and forth a few times more using the button (and the USB hub for keyboard/mouse) without any further issues. So far I do not see where the "evil" in passive HDMI switching lies. And these devices are quite cheap. (Just in case: if buying on ebay watch postage charges and location. But you probably know this very well). -- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik Unless explicitly stated, all opinions in my mail are my own and do not reflect the views of any organization -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Mikhail Ramendik wrote:

On 28 June 2016 at 23:15, Mikhail Ramendik wrote:

...

So far I do not see where the "evil" in passive HDMI switching lies. And these devices are quite cheap.

Upon a google: the "evil" is apparently that there is no such thing as a passive HDMI switch. The cheap devices use the 5V power provided by the HDMI source. Which means that if the source somehow does not provide enough power, the device malfunctions.

Both of my sources do provide enough power. I suspect most stationary computers provide enough power, at least if you use a short cable. I will test with a tablet but this will be in some weeks, when the Mini HDMI to HDMI adapter that I have ordered from China arrives. I can not test a longer cable as I do not have/need one.

-- Yours, Mikhail Ramendik

Thanks Mikhail, My 4 PCs are all stationary so hopefully they provide enough power. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

I bought a Kinivo 501BN HDMI automatic switch with 5 HDMI input ports.

My results are mixed.

First I've had it a week plus and have this hooked up so far:

1 openSUSE Leap 42.2 Alpha 2 1 Mini-Mac dual booting to MacOS and Windows 7 2 Windows boxes with WIndows 8.1

For the Windows / MacOS machines I had to disable the power saver feature that blanks the screen before it became able to reliable re-connect to the computers.

After that, the Mac and the Windows boxes are working well.

For the openSUSE box, I've unchecked "Screen Energy Saving" in the KDE Energy Saving module, but it hasn't helped.

Where else do I need to disable the power saving mode that turns off the monitor?

Thanks

Well, that doesn't seem to be the problem. I left the HDMI switch set to the openSUSE PC and ignored it for a couple hours. The desktop screen is still up, so I have indeed eliminated both the screen saver and the power off feature. I'll leave it like that at least overnight. I expect all to be well. Unfortunately I've had at least 2 occasions where I've moved the HDMI switch away from that PC and then a day or so later when I come back I can't wake the screen up. One of those was today. My solution today was to remote into the box and reboot. There has to be a better way. Otherwise I can treat the PC as headless except immediately after a reboot. Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer composed on 2016-06-13 17:29 (UTC-0400):

Newegg says my shipment is in transit.

They provided me a single FedEx shipping number. All 6 line items are supposed to be in that one shipment. (I assume it is a ground shipment since I didn't pay for expedited delivery.)

Amazing! OTOH, ordering late Friday and only reporting shipment today means it had a couple of days to move product among its warehouses to avoid a split shipment to you. Overall handling cost might have been cheaper that way. :-p

We'll see how many packages it is when it arrives.

One Fedex number means one container. What state are you in? What state was it shipped from? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org