On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:55, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/03/23 22:34 (GMT-0400) dwgallien composed:

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IMHO this is an easy decision - 64 bit.

Regardless the amount of installed RAM? Regardless the price of adding more RAM? Regardless the possibility of adding more RAM?

I agree. If there's absolutely no chance you will ever install over 3.5GB in the system by all means use the 32-bit. Both should generally work fine but I think there's a slightly less chance of having the rare issue with the 32-bit. For example I have some odd issues to run DOSemu on 64-bit. Sometimes under some cases I get DPMS error and application crashing. But how many of us actually run DOSemu to run 1980's Clipper/dBase programs in year 2011? -- Med Vennlig Hilsen, A. Helge Joakimsen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

On Wed, 2011-03-23 at 23:48 -0400, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

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On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:55, Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2011/03/23 22:34 (GMT-0400) dwgallien composed:

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IMHO this is an easy decision - 64 bit.

How about running virtual machines in, say, vmware? Can vmware run a 64-bit client on a 32-bit host? Or do you need a 64-bit host to run a 64-bit client?

I use VirtualBox on 64 bit OS (11.3 upgraded to 11.4). I don't know about vmware specifically, but the 64 bit Vbox can run either 64 or 32 bit guest VMs. I doubt any virtualization product is capable of running a 64 bit guest on a 32 bit only cpu. So if you are contemplating running 64 bit guest VMs, go for the 64 bit version for the OS install. Provided you have a 64 bit cpu, of course. Generally most anything new and recent is 64 bit capable. -Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

C wrote:

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:05, Michael Powell wrote:

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Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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On Wed, 2011-03-23 at 23:48 -0400, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

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On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:55, Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2011/03/23 22:34 (GMT-0400) dwgallien composed:

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IMHO this is an easy decision - 64 bit.

How about running virtual machines in, say, vmware? Can vmware run a 64-bit client on a 32-bit host? Or do you need a 64-bit host to run a 64-bit client?

I use VirtualBox on 64 bit OS (11.3 upgraded to 11.4). I don't know about vmware specifically, but the 64 bit Vbox can run either 64 or 32 bit guest VMs. I doubt any virtualization product is capable of running a 64 bit guest on a 32 bit only cpu.

So if you are contemplating running 64 bit guest VMs, go for the 64 bit version for the OS install. Provided you have a 64 bit cpu, of course. Generally most anything new and recent is 64 bit capable.

Actually... you can run 64 bit guests on a 32 bit host with VirtualBox (if you enable hardware virtualization in the host's BIOS). You've been able to do this since version 2.1 of VirtualBox - ie it's been possible for a few years now. See point #3 here: http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch03.html#intro-64bitguests

And they mention 32 bit Operating System, on applicable hardware. A 32 bit only cpu is not applicable hardware. But yes - I do understand the point here about the hardware requirement, and if the processor/bios supports the extensions it does indeed work as you described. Older 32 bit only processors [hardware] were made prior to the introduction of the requisite hardware virtualization extensions. Without these extensions this is not possible. When these extensions appeared in the processor instruction set it was also the same time processors became able to run 64 and 32 bit code simultaneously. When I mentioned "32 bit only" I meant processors from before this time frame; they will not run a 64 bit guest VM. -Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 05:46 -0400, Michael Powell wrote:

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Older 32 bit only processors [hardware] were made prior to the introduction of the requisite hardware virtualization extensions. Without these extensions this is not possible. When these extensions appeared in the processor instruction set it was also the same time processors became able to run 64 and 32 bit code simultaneously. When I mentioned "32 bit only" I meant processors from before this time frame; they will not run a 64 bit guest VM.

In my case, I have dual of these:

cpu family : 6 model : 15 model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz stepping : 6 cpu MHz : 1596.000

I have a feeling it is 64-bit. Time to check.

Just check if the 'flags' line lists 'lm', but an Intel Core2 is definitely 64bit capable. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/03/23 22:34 (GMT-0400) dwgallien composed:

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the question becomes do I want to go with the 32 bit version, which I've always run, or the 64 bit. Is there any benefit either way?

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IMHO this is an easy decision - 64 bit.

Regardless the amount of installed RAM? Regardless the price of adding more RAM? Regardless the possibility of adding more RAM?

The OP has a quad, and typically that means 4GB of RAM. As I alluded to in my reply, one's use model dictates how much benefit the user gets. IMO, esp given that 64-bit is solely where development is focused now, unless one needs a corner case app which won't run on 64-bit, there is no downside and quite possibly if not likely upside. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

dwgallien wrote:

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On 2011/03/23 22:34 (GMT-0400) dwgallien composed:

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the question becomes do I want to go with the 32 bit version, which I've always run, or the 64 bit. Is there any benefit either way?

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IMHO this is an easy decision - 64 bit.

Regardless the amount of installed RAM? Regardless the price of adding more RAM? Regardless the possibility of adding more RAM?

The OP has a quad, and typically that means 4GB of RAM.

Why? Rule of thumb = 1Gb per core? I haven't heard that one before.

No, simply because the vast majority of Phenom quad oem machines are usually configured that way. And it is highly unusual (at least here in the U.S.) for diy or custom builders to not use 4GB if already investing in a quad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 13:23 -0400, dwgallien wrote:

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On 2011/03/23 22:34 (GMT-0400) dwgallien composed:

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the question becomes do I want to go with the 32 bit version, which I've always run, or the 64 bit. Is there any benefit either way?

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IMHO this is an easy decision - 64 bit.

Regardless the amount of installed RAM? Regardless the price of adding more RAM? Regardless the possibility of adding more RAM?

The OP has a quad, and typically that means 4GB of RAM. Well, vendors sell happily quad-cores PC's with as little as 2GB mem...

I wrote "typically"; that means "usually" or "most of the time", etc. It does not mean "always". The point is that the vast majority of Phenom quads from the major oem's ship with at least 4GB. Same with custom rigs. Hence the probability that the OP has 4GB. That's all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 03/24/2011 08:06 PM, Larry Stotler pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM, dwgallien wrote:

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I wrote "typically"; that means "usually" or "most of the time", etc. It does not mean "always".

The point is that the vast majority of Phenom quads from the major oem's ship with at least 4GB. Same with custom rigs. Hence the probability that the OP has ?4GB. That's all.

Considering it's a first gen Phenom, then it's a couple years old and it may not have that much. Hard to say without the OP chiming in. Personally, I'd ditch it and go for an Athlon II X4 or Phenom II. The early Phenoms weren't that good of a chip IMNSHO.

Anyway, since the 32bit kernel is PAE enabled by defaut for the NX bit, having over 4GB isn't that much of a problem. I have an old dual Tualatin P3 server with 6GB and 11.3 saw it all and used it all. It was probably a touch slower since PAE basically swaps memory in and out of the lower space, but it used it. PAE supports 64GB RAM on a 32bit OS, so that's also not that much of an issue.

Further, some motherboards will move the video RAM and other devices over the 4GB area, so you can actually use all 4GB on a 32bit system. Video cards with a GB or more of RAM and 32bit can be an issue with more than 2GBs, so 64bit makes more sense.

I've used 64bit on my Celeron E1200 for almost 3 years with little issues. Flash was probably the worst with Hulu until they released the newer Beta. Now it's actually smother and works better than the previous one, so being forced to update it wasn't a problem.

Anyway, keep in mind that OS X runs a 32bit kernel with the ability to run 64bit apps and they can still use the upper RAM past 4GB IIRC. I can't remember if anyone ever got that to work on Linux.

BFD! Can we take this pissing match elsewhere? -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org