Re: SUSE taking over the World! Finally!
On Mon, November 29, 2004 3:57 pm, Allen said:
I know who made the RPM, I just said they didn't get much from RedHat other than that. With SUSE 8.1 Professional. which was my first Linux, it shows a calender and how SUSE started. And a million books I have all show SUSE was first a part of Slackware. SUSE has been around longer than ReDHat and so has Slackware.
Hi Allen, You're over discounting the incredible amount of work RedHat has contributed back to the community in many open source projects especially the kernel. The Suse products of today owe some thanks to Red Hat. Admitting this takes nothing away from Suse. Sean
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 16:18, Sean wrote:
On Mon, November 29, 2004 3:57 pm, Allen said:
Hi Allen,
You're over discounting the incredible amount of work RedHat has contributed back to the community in many open source projects especially the kernel. The Suse products of today owe some thanks to Red Hat. Admitting this takes nothing away from Suse.
And let's not forget RPM - RedHat package manager. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989 SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please*
On Monday 29 Nov 2004 21:38, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 16:18, Sean wrote:
On Mon, November 29, 2004 3:57 pm, Allen said:
Hi Allen,
You're over discounting the incredible amount of work RedHat has contributed back to the community in many open source projects especially the kernel. The Suse products of today owe some thanks to Red Hat. Admitting this takes nothing away from Suse.
And let's not forget RPM - RedHat package manager.
-- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989 SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please*
yes and why the heck did they choose rpm when real were already using it for audio files causes no end of hassle . pete -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world has NO USE for M$ Corp it is time to END M$ Corp , Play time is over folks time for action approaches at an alarming pace the death knell for M$ Copr has been sounded . Termination time is around the corner ..
peter Nikolic wrote:
On Monday 29 Nov 2004 21:38, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 16:18, Sean wrote:
On Mon, November 29, 2004 3:57 pm, Allen said:
Hi Allen,
You're over discounting the incredible amount of work RedHat has contributed back to the community in many open source projects especially the kernel. The Suse products of today owe some thanks to Red Hat. Admitting this takes nothing away from Suse.
And let's not forget RPM - RedHat package manager.
-- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989 SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please*
yes and why the heck did they choose rpm when real were already using it for audio files causes no end of hassle . pete
As we've ranted about for many years now, it's almost impossible to download rpm's from some sites when SHIFT-Right click doesn't get you the file you want, just some html and when clicking on the link simply brings up realaudio. rhp, rhpm, pmr or something else would have been more sensible as the gods have not decreed there be a +3 suffix. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====
On Monday 29 November 2004 19:17, Sid Boyce wrote:
peter Nikolic wrote:
On Monday 29 Nov 2004 21:38, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 16:18, Sean wrote:
And let's not forget RPM - RedHat package manager.
yes and why the heck did they choose rpm when real were already using it for audio files causes no end of hassle . pete
As we've ranted about for many years now, it's almost impossible to download rpm's from some sites when SHIFT-Right click doesn't get you the file you want, just some html and when clicking on the link simply brings up realaudio. rhp, rhpm, pmr or something else would have been more sensible as the gods have not decreed there be a +3 suffix. Regards Sid.
I like slackware and Free BSD's .tgz system, it's nice. SUSE has these too and can handle the, easily.
Sid, On Monday 29 November 2004 16:17, Sid Boyce wrote:
...
yes and why the heck did they choose rpm when real were already using it for audio files causes no end of hassle . pete
As we've ranted about for many years now, it's almost impossible to download rpm's from some sites when SHIFT-Right click doesn't get you the file you want, just some html and when clicking on the link simply brings up realaudio. rhp, rhpm, pmr or something else would have been more sensible as the gods have not decreed there be a +3 suffix. Regards
The real problem with such sites is that they don't supply proper MIME types in the stream that's returned. Either that or a brain-damaged browser. Any decent browser resorts to using the file name extension (if any) as a data type indicator only when the server does not identify the type of data being returned. It's really sad that one of the best features of the original Macintosh operating system, typed files, was dropped with the advent of OS-X. What should have happened is that proper file type metadata should have displaced the ridiculous notion of encoding a file's type in its name. It was just a replay of Betamax vs. VHS competition, really.
Sid Boyce
Randall Schulz
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Sid,
On Monday 29 November 2004 16:17, Sid Boyce wrote:
...
yes and why the heck did they choose rpm when real were already using it for audio files causes no end of hassle . pete
As we've ranted about for many years now, it's almost impossible to download rpm's from some sites when SHIFT-Right click doesn't get you the file you want, just some html and when clicking on the link simply brings up realaudio. rhp, rhpm, pmr or something else would have been more sensible as the gods have not decreed there be a +3 suffix. Regards
The real problem with such sites is that they don't supply proper MIME types in the stream that's returned. Either that or a brain-damaged browser. Any decent browser resorts to using the file name extension (if any) as a data type indicator only when the server does not identify the type of data being returned.
It's really sad that one of the best features of the original Macintosh operating system, typed files, was dropped with the advent of OS-X. What should have happened is that proper file type metadata should have displaced the ridiculous notion of encoding a file's type in its name. It was just a replay of Betamax vs. VHS competition, really.
Sid Boyce
Randall Schulz
That makes sense, it seems there are holes everywhere, e.g in konqueror if you rename a .jpg file to .txt, it treats it as a text file, our friend in Teheran pointed that one out. Laziness perhaps on the part of the developers. I've just tried downloading rpms from fedora and SuSE using konqueror and firefox, no problems. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====
Sid Boyce wrote:
That makes sense, it seems there are holes everywhere, e.g in konqueror if you rename a .jpg file to .txt, it treats it as a text file, our friend in Teheran pointed that one out. Laziness perhaps on the part of the developers. I've just tried downloading rpms from fedora and SuSE using konqueror and firefox, no problems. Regards Sid.
This is one area, where OS/2 has it all over any other OS I've seen. It used extended attributes, to describe the file type. This makes file extensions irrelevant. For example, I have an OS/2 word processor, called "Describe". Every document it creates, "knows" it is a Describe document and opening the file from the desktop, will cause Describe to start up. Incidentally, those extended attributes can hold up to 64K bytes of data.
Sid, On Monday 29 November 2004 18:52, Sid Boyce wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Sid,
On Monday 29 November 2004 16:17, Sid Boyce wrote:
...
As we've ranted about for many years now, it's almost impossible to download rpm's from some sites when SHIFT-Right click doesn't get you the file you want, ...
The real problem with such sites is that they don't supply proper MIME types in the stream that's returned. Either that or a brain-damaged browser. Any decent browser resorts to using the file name extension (if any) as a data type indicator only when the server does not identify the type of data being returned.
It's really sad that one of the best features of the original Macintosh operating system, typed files, was dropped with the advent of OS-X. What should have happened is that proper file type metadata should have displaced the ridiculous notion of encoding a file's type in its name. It was just a replay of Betamax vs. VHS competition, really.
Sid Boyce
Randall Schulz
That makes sense, it seems there are holes everywhere, e.g in konqueror if you rename a .jpg file to .txt, it treats it as a text file, our friend in Teheran pointed that one out. Laziness perhaps on the part of the developers.
That's not the same thing. The HTTP protocol includes a provision for a MIME type. But under a stock Unix or Linux system, a file is just a sequence of bytes without any information to indicate what's stored therein. The MIME type that may have been returned by a Web server is not retained anywhwere after the transfer is complete. That MIME type is used only to determine the (default) dispensation for the data stream returned by that server. Short of the extension, the only thing some Unix application software can do to determine a file's type is invoke a program such as "file" to identify the file's contents. Either that, or the operating must keep a explicit record of the file's content type (as the pre-OS-X MacOS did). So basically, by changing the file's extension, you've lied to the software about what the file contains.
I've just tried downloading rpms from fedora and SuSE using konqueror and firefox, no problems.
Regards
Sid. -- Sid Boyce
Randall Schulz
On 30-Nov-04 Sid Boyce wrote:
As we've ranted about for many years now, it's almost impossible to download rpm's from some sites when SHIFT-Right click doesn't get you the file you want, just some html and when clicking on the link simply brings up realaudio. rhp, rhpm, pmr or something else would have been more sensible as the gods have not decreed there be a +3 suffix. Regards Sid.
The gods did not so decree, but the Devil did! (I'm old enough to
remember it happening).
More seriously, there's /etc/magic, or /usr/share/magic (depending
on the distribution), which contains several entries allowing the
true file type to be identified from the presence of characteristic
byte sequences (used by the 'file' command -- see "man file").
However, even this is not guaranteed to be perfect.
The perfect answer is for the user to know what type an individual
file really is, and invoke whatever command the user wants to
apply to that file (which may differe from occasion to occasion
for the same file). In other words, use the command line in a
discriminating manner!
Best wishes to all,
Ted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding)
Ted, On Tuesday 30 November 2004 00:41, Ted Harding wrote:
...
More seriously, there's /etc/magic, or /usr/share/magic (depending on the distribution), which contains several entries allowing the true file type to be identified from the presence of characteristic byte sequences (used by the 'file' command -- see "man file").
However, even this is not guaranteed to be perfect.
Well, the "file" program works and given a sufficiently comprehensive and correct magic file (or files) will correctly identify files to which it is applied. However, there is always the potential problem of files that don't have sufficiently unambiguous signatures to be reliably detected.
The perfect answer is for the user to know what type an individual file really is, and invoke whatever command the user wants to apply to that file (which may differe from occasion to occasion for the same file). In other words, use the command line in a discriminating manner!
I think you're missing the point. There are some Web sites (SourceForge comes to mind) where there's a download link whose URL ends in, say, ".rpm" but which does not actually produce an RPM file (typically that URL includes a query segment and the ".rpm" is actually an argument to the query). Instead, it sends the browser (or should send the browser) to an secondary download page where the user selects the mirror from which the actual file will be downloaded. If the browser uses the URL's suffix to determine the dispensation of the returned data stream, whether because it's a poorly written browser or because the server does not include the MIME type of the data it's returning, then the browser will almost certainly not take the correct action when opening such a link. Using "SHIFT-click" or "right-click" to access a context menu and force a "save link target" action won't work, either, because that will just save the HTML of the secondary download page.
Best wishes to all, Ted.
Randall Schulz
->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Allen" (gorebofh@comcast.net) wrote: ---------- I think for the third time now I'll point out I realise who came up with RPM, and now for the second time I'll say I really have no problems with RedHat Linux but I can't stand the company who screwed a lot of people. If anyone here runs Servers on RedHat 9, you know what I'm talking about, there was no upgrade to Fedora, nothing, you were left with a decision to make, and it wasn't fair <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- Against all their helps to open-source, their lack of support for small scale linux wasn't desirable. RedHat says that only enterprise users need support; others only need update. I think Marc Ewing should pay more attention to home and small office users. Any little user is important. Their Fedora project (that contains a forum) is now a good start. -Is ext3 invented by RedHat? Best Regards, Bahram Alinezhad, Rudehen, Tehran, Iran. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
participants (9)
-
Allen -
Bahram Alinezhad -
James Knott -
Ken Schneider -
peter Nikolic -
Randall R Schulz -
Sean -
Sid Boyce -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk