-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 01:30, John Andersen wrote:

On September 11, 2015 3:50:21 PM PDT, "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

Is Unison set up to sync all file types?

Yes. The entire photo tree, but that doesn't include the database which is on another path, and should not be copied, but generated.

Is it perhaps that instead of the image files themselves, the Metadata is stored in some filesystem Metadata tag system?

That's what I'm afraid is happening, despite configuring it not to. That it is storing the photos metadata in the database, not in the photos.

Is it possible that the image viewer software on one of the machines simply isnt capable of displaying the tags embedded in the image files?

No, it is shotwell on both. Same version. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXzZUAACgkQja8UbcUWM1xHJwD/e8fUnfqvPJSucnDmnchmR8Et AlS5Zits9b5uT/Tj1f8A/RmpR2wFmj01vsqNd19AuuiHO/TvB12Zv6v/vujv/oPw =8KBb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 01:52, John Andersen wrote:

On 09/11/2015 04:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Yes. The entire photo tree, but that doesn't include the database which is on another path, and should not be copied, but generated.

You deliberately did not include the database in Unison? Why should not this be copied as well?

Because it is in a different path, and because the instructions say not to. Apparently it is better to let it generate instead, as there could be different photos on each computer.

Are you copying raw images or Jpeg?

Both.

(Often Jpeg have a great deal of metadata embedded in the image, but I assume that is not what you are missing.

Apparently, the tags are added to that metadata, and thus, copied across to any other machine when you copy any photo. Some photos even loose the orientation. A few appear with wrong tags.

I think we have at least on photographer on this list, Daniel. Pretty sure he could help more than I.

Let's wait :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXzerQACgkQja8UbcUWM1wrrgD/VY9WKZnfbJLL3BfbLa/nnmSg Pzr97gjyzW1oFH2anewBAJpl4PlLplqNy0/69vld9RFPE6wTLvUxO08RuSfUhfX5 =Wxbm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 02:34, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 09/11/2015 06:50 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

** Darktable saves all important image metadata (including tags, edit history, etc.) in XMP "sidecar" files alongside the images themselves. **

That not only describes the tagging but also what edits you've done to map the RAW to a JPG so you can go back and tweak it :-)

Yes. But in shotwell I configured it to save those things inside the photos, so that they carry across with file copy.

Naturally, if you copy whole directories (aka logical films) using ... rsync, dropbox ... whatever ... those go with the RAW file. And maybe the JPGs too depending where you keep them.

They are in the same directory, just different extension of the file names. So all those are copied across to the other machine. The camera does the same.

The database is at “$HOME/.config/darktable/library.db”. This is where Darktable saves information about the images you've imported. The library file is mostly just a cache that speeds up various operations within Darktable. When you import it lets you think in terms of "logical films" and "collections".

Yes, shotwell does some thing very similar. The help files tell not to copy it, let it regenerate instead.

This seems more a sot to the Windows/adobe style of doing things where the underlying file system is not of interest to the 'photographer'.

Correct.

OK, that broad brush and might offend some nit-pickers. I've not found the database essential. I do find other things in “$HOME/.config/darktable" essential. There's a lot of config there, sizes, colours, start-up defaults. But that's true for most applications that store in “$HOME/.config", isn't it?

Yep. :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXzeSwACgkQja8UbcUWM1wDfwEAmQI1Sj7GuzORD+QE4tYcx32T 5Uk4uOmLyWnAiaZS6z8A/i9+EW+Q8ulo/KH5Aa96fZ208JQQUa+3PTdOCd4U43Qa =N0id -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 03:16, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 09/11/2015 09:00 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I think we need to draw some boundaries.

Shotwell is for Gnome and is a image ORGANIZER. It has some basic manipulation capability. Darktable is a heavy duty "virtual darkroom"/"virtual light-table" image processor, more of the order of GIMP. That is why I use Kong/dolph as the organizer.

Well, I only have this camera since two weeks, I'm learning ;-) Yes, shotwell is an organizer, and it does it well. I can also call external editors, or raw handlers. I don't use gnome, though: it is xfce. I'll try darktable, too. It is not my intention to "develop" all photos, only some that are worth it. With film and little money, you had to think a lot before taking a photograph. Now with digital photos we shoot by the thousands, but few are really good. For instance... this new camera has a mind of its own: if it thinks there are no conditions for taking the photo, it doesn't shoot. I went to a wedding this weekend and missed a few good shots because the camera refused to shoot. This is new to me: with film, I "computed" the settings in advance, then shot. The camera just obeyed me. Crumbs :-} - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXzh20ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zYZAEAku50tsR5EiZFKqUpBQr4qMHc 2IdijgYwgyhQfLDe0PQA/if2PfxgI6reAsJzysPh4zAqjtyovWKRXJ+vT7BRjhF7 =19mS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 10:17, Daniel Bauer wrote:

Nothing stops you from thinking a lot with digital cameras, too, I always break out in a sweat during photo sessions for thinking so much :-)

I have first to get accustomed to it ;.)

If you have enough backup space (shouldn't be a problem with the cheap external drives nowadays) keep ALL your raws. In some time you'll look at them very different, what you consider failed today might be a great image in future. I still suffer from my beginners error to throw away "failed" negatives that now I'd really love to have...

No, I keep all my negatives. The problem is remembering where :-p

...

For instance... this new camera has a mind of its own: if it thinks there are no conditions for taking the photo, it doesn't shoot.

I guess your camera is connected to google. google always knows better what you want than yourself.

LOL. Not mine. No bluetooth, wifi, or gps. It actually has the GPS word in the body, but it is a connector for an external unit. This thing has no socket to connect my old mechanical cable for shooting... how do you call them in English... photos at a very slow setting, without touching the camera. My cable was probably made in the thirties. Like a thin bicycle brake wire. Instead, I would have to buy a remote by radio controller. I guess it is expensive. But I have a preference for nocturnal photos :-)

...

I went to a wedding this weekend and missed a few good shots because the camera refused to shoot.

This can happen, for example, when the camera is set to autofocus and cannot focus, because it's too dark, too misty, too close... what ever are the limits of your autofocus.

Yes, exactly. I went by the "Puerto de los Leones" mountain pass, in Madrid, recently. I saw some big birds circling. Eagles? I started shooting, choosing the "sports" setting. I suddenly realized that the camera automatically selected multiple shots. Nice. But it tried to autofocus between shots, and several times it went so blurry that I could not even see and point at the bird at all and missed it when it was nearest. Argh.

Maybe it cannot find a "useful" automatic setting of ISO/aperture/speed.

Then use manual focus (or autofocus on a part with enough contrast at the same distance and keep the trigger half pressed until you go back to the desired frame) or manual ISO/aperture/speed settings. Just experiment.

Yes. I have to learn how to do all that, and practice. These cameras have too many settings, compared to my old reflex: diaphragm, speed, distance (plus zoom). Half automatic, I think. I knew how to do handle those ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlX0H2oACgkQja8UbcUWM1zWpAEAk+TirE3SbWTN60kT3NzZYmTb gF4INgqSZ6I8xVIYEJYBAIecNjkUuHoOIF7vGyHpyqWP+mjQx9tLrwtioje/f+EF =ZWJY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 15:52, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 09/12/2015 08:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Yes. I have to learn how to do all that, and practice. These cameras have too many settings, compared to my old reflex: diaphragm, speed, distance (plus zoom). Half automatic, I think. I knew how to do handle those ;-)

Unlike some of the consumer/point-and-shoot models, your's has the ability to "go manual"

True. That's one of the reasons I wanted one. But it is not the kind of "go manual" that I'm used to. One of the things that confuses me is that digital cameras can adjust ISO settings. With film, you did the choice when purchasing the film. Professionals carried several cameras sometimes for this reason. I still do not know how the camera can adjust the sensitivity of the sensor :-?

While you may want to turn all automatics off, its not always a good idea.

Absolutely!

Specific cases might want the "programmed' mode and manual focus; or "aperture priority" to control DoF. Sometimes leave autofocus on and do manual exposure.

I was fortune in that I grew up with the semi-automatics like the Canon A1. I could use the "programmed" and concentrate on focus/composition. So now I have a better idea of when to use which "smart" function.

Exactly. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlX0iGcACgkQja8UbcUWM1xaggD+P68opXSNowzkUEROEEUzq4mu IUTW4GqzI4/CV++T9KsA/3rvrBkuRuyakimO6t47o+m+8uOVZFO8PJeKRJVaPKpB =yYX3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 12.09.2015 um 04:01 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

Well, I only have this camera since two weeks, I'm learning ;-)

Enjoy!

...

...

It is not my intention to "develop" all photos, only some that are worth it. With film and little money, you had to think a lot before taking a photograph. Now with digital photos we shoot by the thousands, but few are really good.

...

For instance... this new camera has a mind of its own: if it thinks there are no conditions for taking the photo, it doesn't shoot.

I must say mine has never ever done that. I have an SX220 by Canon. I regret having bought it. I wasn't very intuitive that day. That time. I was rather rational about it. The thing is too bulky and too fully featured for me. It is absolutely beautiful but for some reason also the battery pack sometimes discharges in a short time. That makes it harder to sell it. I don't know what causes this problem. I am asking the vendor, they are still around. Who knows... But they sound like washing machines that decide how and when you'll get your laundry back. Most "improvements" these days are deterioriations and regressions anyway. That's why I'm still relevant, I guess. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 12:07, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. [09-11-15 22:04]: [...]

...

For instance... this new camera has a mind of its own: if it thinks there are no conditions for taking the photo, it doesn't shoot. I went to a wedding this weekend and missed a few good shots because the camera refused to shoot. This is new to me: with film, I "computed" the settings in advance, then shot. The camera just obeyed me.

There is a "focus" setting in your menu which provides that the shutter will no work unless focus is achieved. You can turn this off so that you always get the shot even if the camera doesn't realize focus. Mine are set that way as the camera does not always know where *I* want focus to be.

I believe I don't have that setting. Instead there is a manual focus (I don't know how, yet). Or focus somewhere else and freeze it. But the subjects I missed were running: I needed fast adjusting, and lost the chance in a second. With my negative camera I would have chosen high speed film, high diafragm number, to increase depth of field, then focus on the area. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlX0IOUACgkQja8UbcUWM1xA0AD/RLIlYRY8D5lBLGNyIAaGIvpc H+J8v0lC5CnqnFZ2P0EBAIOcOxYToB2QB7eGKdIHHLt+TEdr3C3emAufgJDUO2w3 =jqgT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2015-09-12 19:23, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. <> [09-12-15 08:56]:

A way to negate focus priority (the setting you are missing): http://forums.cameratips.com/discussion/2327/an-undocumented-af-feature-to-k...

Wow! :-O It would take months for me to imagine that one... (making the camera focus not on the main button, but on an alternate button) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-09-12 04:01, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. <> [09-11-15 21:01]:

Open an image with exiftool and check if tags are stored within the image's exif data table. Will be labled as "Subject" and "Tags List". Shotwell will recognize both as tags but stores tags as "Subject".

exiv2 will also exhibit exif data but I am not familiar with the commands.

Good idea! 'mc' also displays it, at least for jpeg, not for .NEF. (installing exiftool in laptop...) Nope. Ah... on photos taken by my pocket camera, those tags are named "Keywords": Keywords : Excursiones, Madrid Only *jpg photos contain them, not .NEF, an few .JPG. cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148.NEF | grep Key cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148.JPG | grep Key cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148_NEF_embedded.jpg | grep Key Keywords : Excursiones, Madrid, NK_DSC_D3200, Pruebas de fotografía cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> Tomorrow I'll compare the same photo on the desktop computer, see if it is different or the same. It should be the same, it is a file copy. But if what matters is the NEF file, as that one is empty, the comments are not displayed. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXzjpoACgkQja8UbcUWM1wyWgD/f6Pp5CeO68s+a/8otP3iXQvb 8BrvU+U4Pxr0u1CCpQAA/18GtayupLADdKUZgvfLjmIRVCxgZdcC/VkPwylqvTzE =qE8l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2015-09-12 04:31, Carlos E. R. wrote:

cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148.NEF | grep Key cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148.JPG | grep Key cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148_NEF_embedded.jpg | grep Key Keywords : Excursiones, Madrid, NK_DSC_D3200, Pruebas de fotografía cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09>

Tomorrow I'll compare the same photo on the desktop computer, see if it is different or the same. It should be the same, it is a file copy. But if what matters is the NEF file, as that one is empty, the comments are not displayed.

cer@Telcontar:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148.NEF | grep Key cer@Telcontar:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148.JPG | grep Key cer@Telcontar:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0148_NEF_embedded.jpg | grep Key Keywords : Excursiones, Madrid, NK_DSC_D3200, Pruebas de fotografía Same contents. And this particular photo has the comments on both computers. I have to locate one that fails... Got it. Displays correctly on desktop, doesn't on laptop: cer@Telcontar:~/Pictures/2015/09> l DSC_0126_1* -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 9732791 Sep 6 11:16 DSC_0126_1.JPG -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 21363539 Sep 6 11:16 DSC_0126_1.NEF cer@Telcontar:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0126* | grep -i Key cer@Telcontar:~/Pictures/2015/09> laptop: cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> l DSC_0126_1* -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 9732791 Sep 12 00:15 DSC_0126_1.JPG -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 21363539 Sep 12 00:15 DSC_0126_1.NEF cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> exiftool DSC_0126* | grep -i Key cer@minas-tirith:~/Pictures/2015/09> So the comments and tags, at least in this photo, are not stored on the photo itself, but on a database somewhere. Thus it must be a bug or feature of shotwell. Shotwell "FAQ" link points to http://redmine.yorba.org/projects/shotwell/wiki/ShotwellFAQ, which gives error 404. The manual confirms that it doesn't write to NEF files. It stores metadata on jpegs themselves, or into a database. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2015-09-12 19:34, Malcolm wrote:

On Sat 12 Sep 2015 07:19:41 PM CDT, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Shotwell "FAQ" link points to http://redmine.yorba.org/projects/shotwell/wiki/ShotwellFAQ, which gives error 404.

The manual confirms that it doesn't write to NEF files. It stores metadata on jpegs themselves, or into a database.

Hi Look at the FAQ? https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Shotwell/FAQ "How can I copy my Shotwell library to a new computer?"

Yes, that's probably the page I read a year or two ago, but which now gave me a 404 error. It has been moved. Apparently they say to copy as well the "~/.shotwell" directory. I wonder about that one. I will have a look at that FAQ again, thanks for the link. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 09/12/2015 03:59 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:

Am 12.09.2015 um 00:50 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

I use shotwell to get the photos from my cameras; and I sync them on two computers (laptop and desktop), using unison.

Shotwell is configured to store tags and tittles in the photos; however, what I do in one computer doesn't show on the other computer, as if it were done in a database instead. That is, the photos are transferred, but not the tags and other modifications to the metadata.

Am I doing it wrong, is there a solution?

I don't know the programs you are using, neither shotwell nor usinon.

I looked at shotwell. its not a photo editor. I use Kong/dolphin for an organizer I use rsync. I grew up with UNIX/Linux; I use the Linux tools rather than the 'embedded' things that are a sot to people familiar with the Windows environment where they are captured by the application.

I don't know if your having the problems with raw or other files. I never touch raw files, I think one shouldn't. I never alter their metadata or anything, just organize them in meaningful folders, completely separated from the "developed" files.

Right! Preserve the RAW; apply tools to generate jpj, png, whatever from the RAW. I'll put one rider on what Daniel says. I add a copyright/ownership to the RAW metadata when I upload.

I can imagine that programs get confused with altered meta data in raw files, as these are proprietary formats. Altering something within them can (to my opinion) only be made "nearly good" with reverse engineered programs. Later maybe it cannot handle it correctly because it expects an original raw? I just wouldn't touch the raw's...

Some vendors do document their RAW very well and there are upload/exif tools that are specifically purposed for this. YMMV with vendor, so don't take the fact that I can do it safely to mean every one can with every brand of camera, every model, every revision of the camera's software.

In other files (jpg etc.) you can indeed save many metatags directly in the files,

That is one reason I use darktable. The sidecar file approach let me reconstitute/edit/tweak the jpg without touching the RAW. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/12/2015 04:46 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The advantage of unison is that it copies in either direction, whereas rsync copies only in one direction. Unison, which is also CLI if you wish, decides at run time in what direction to copy each file; thus it is wonderful to keep in sync work files between desktop and laptop, without me having to keep track of them. That's what computers are for, to save work for humans ;-)

Unison is writting in prolog, isn't it? It's the only tool I know of that's written in prolog. I once programmed prolog for a university course. My companion couldn't understand any of it. I loved it. It was so easy, so natural. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org