On November 6, 2015 3:34:10 PM PST, "Carlos E. R." wrote:

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On 2015-11-07 00:07, Bjoern Voigt wrote:

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At first I couldn't believe it: If I upgrade my distribution from 13.2 to Leap 42.1, PHP is downgraded from 5.6.1 to 5.5.14 and Perl is downgraded from 5.20.1 to 5.18.2.

Intentional.

Remember that the core of Leap is SLE, which is older than openSUSE 13.2.

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I also wonder, how "zypper dup" or DVD upgrade handles the downgraded packages.

Nicely, it is expected.

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

So the question is, how long before Leap catches up with 13.2? Will 13.2 fall off of maintenance before that happens? Will there ever be a 13.3? Or is Tumbleweed going to fill that role? Or is Microfocus just going to shut the whole thing down? -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/11/15 12:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2015-11-07 01:52, John Andersen wrote:

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So the question is, how long before Leap catches up with 13.2? A year or more, I guess. Till Leap 42.2. The timing depends on the next SLE service pack or release.

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Will 13.2 fall off of maintenance before that happens? Just then, 2 months after it.

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Will there ever be a 13.3? Or is Tumbleweed going to fill that role? No, and no.

:-)

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Or is Microfocus just going to shut the whole thing down? Why would they?

An excellent question, Carlos. But instead let's ask the following question and have your answer: Why did Micro Focus buy Attachmate for $US1.2bn last year (at the end of 2014)? However, how about taking one more step backwards - just for the fun of it, OK? :-) Back in November 2010 Attachmate bought Novell (and SUSE) for $US2.2bn. Not too bad - no increase in value but instead a drop of $1bn in only 4 years. So what does it say about the future of openSUSE? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.2.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/11/15 23:23, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-11-07 11:13, Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 07/11/15 12:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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So what does it say about the future of openSUSE? Dunno.

I can't imagine why business work the way they do. They don't do math the way you do on a household, that I do know.

Hrmph. The maths are the same except that you are not allowed to use the same equations as they are allowed to use simply because you are a punter and not a world dominator :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.2.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/6/2015 7:24 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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Or is Microfocus just going to shut the whole thing down? Why would they, openSUSE helps provide for SLE and SLED.

Is SLED or SLES paying the bills? If not, that would be your answer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/11/15 11:52, John Andersen wrote:

On November 6, 2015 3:34:10 PM PST, "Carlos E. R." wrote:

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On 2015-11-07 00:07, Bjoern Voigt wrote:

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At first I couldn't believe it: If I upgrade my distribution from 13.2 to Leap 42.1, PHP is downgraded from 5.6.1 to 5.5.14 and Perl is downgraded from 5.20.1 to 5.18.2. Intentional.

Remember that the core of Leap is SLE, which is older than openSUSE 13.2.

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I also wonder, how "zypper dup" or DVD upgrade handles the downgraded packages. Nicely, it is expected.

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

So the question is, how long before Leap catches up with 13.2?

Will 13.2 fall off of maintenance before that happens?

Will there ever be a 13.3? Or is Tumbleweed going to fill that role?

Or is Microfocus just going to shut the whole thing down?

I had similar questions in mind, John, but you beat me to expressing them. It seems to me that since MicroFocus has bought our favourite distro things have gone backwards. From the bit and pieces which I have gleaned from reading here and there, 'Leap of Faith' in now to be regarded as a "long term, stable" release with a life span of 36 or 48 months. So, there you are: you have been given the fully paid-for SUSE SLE free of charge but under the name of 'Leap' - but a 'Leap' which has been been regressed back to the needs of lesser numbered SLE users. The compensation, if you blinked and missed it, is that openSUSE has now become Tumbleweed with all of TW's "good points". I downloaded the repaired TW 20151030 last night and installed it. It has no Community Repositories to handle videos, for example, just as there is no way to view DVD in 'Leap of Faith'. OpenSUSE users have been groomed with nice words telling them that they are in the forefront of testing naughty type programs to get rid of any nasties before they are incorporated into SUSE SLE but in reality that was all BS because openSUSE got itself "done over" by having the reverse occur. OK, let's accept things as they are, but there is still the question: where does Tumbleweed stand in all of this? Will Tumbleweed now become openSUSE - read openSUSE - a "rolling release"; and also now be called openSUSE and not anything fancy like Tumbleweed or Leapfrog or Jumpahead or another monthly release of _Boys' Life_ ? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.9 & kernel 4.2.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2015-11-07 08:07, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

07.11.2015 02:34, Carlos E. R. пишет:

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I also wonder, how "zypper dup" or DVD upgrade handles the downgraded packages.

Nicely, it is expected.

Nitpicking - all that zypper does is equivalent of "rpm -i --force --replacepkgs" which will install any version over any version. Whether RPM can actually be installed depends on changes between these two versions. There are known file layout changes that cannot be handled on RPM level (like replacing directory with symlink) - such changes must be caught by scripts. But old RPM version is not aware of layout change in new version of course ... Another example is splitting of single service in several independent ones, where old RPM cannot of course know it should enable old service.

The "old" rpm, being in fact built after the "new" rpm, could know about it ;-)

This is different from upgrade where new RPM version can be prepared to handle such cases.

Well, right. However, specially in the case of DVD upgrade, you can code anything needed in the "upgrade distro" section ;-) Whether it is done or not, I have no idea. Years ago, in SuSE times, there were release notes that specified the upgrade caveats, what would not work and the admin had to handle himself. What was different on each release. Anyway, I understand that upgrade was tested by openqa, so it should work nicely. I haven't being able to try myself and verify. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 11/07/2015 03:01 PM, jdd wrote:

Le 07/11/2015 13:30, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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Years ago, in SuSE times, there were release notes that specified the upgrade caveats, what would not work and the admin had to handle himself. What was different on each release.

like this?

https://doc.opensuse.org/release-notes/x86_64/openSUSE/Leap/42.1/

No, no. Those notes are minimal. In the old times they were pages and pages, and quite detailed. And in real paper. -- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (openSUSE Leap 42.1, test at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2015-11-08 08:20, jdd wrote:

Le 08/11/2015 03:07, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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No, no. Those notes are minimal. In the old times they were pages and pages, and quite detailed. And in real paper.

on paper? in time where there was a printed manual? last was when Novell buy SuSE AFAIK

really old, then

Yes. I wrote "SuSE times" on purpose ;-) (notice the lower case 'u') Yes, I'm thinking of versions 7.x, 8.x, perhaps 9.x. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2015-11-08 13:11, jdd wrote:

Le 08/11/2015 11:19, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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Yes, I'm thinking of versions 7.x, 8.x, perhaps 9.x.

I have just here what is I guess the last admin manual, the 9.0 one (after that I have only "startup guides", one of the best linux manual ever :-)

but no sign of release note in it.

On the 9.3 paper admin manual (almost 700 pages), look at section 4.2, "changes from version to version". They describe changes starting from version 8.1. The entire 4.1 section is dedicated to "updating". :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2015-11-08 14:58, jdd wrote:

Le 08/11/2015 13:32, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

nothing alike in my two 9.0 manuals (one of 400 and the other of 550 pages :-)

https://www.suse.com/documentation/suse/pdfdoc/SuSE-Linux-Adminguide-9.0.0.0... page 45 of 583 -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2015-11-08 15:28, jdd wrote:

Le 08/11/2015 15:17, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

yes I see, page 47 in fact (the toc is wrong) :-)

Ah, I was not looking at the toc, but the page count in pdf reader. Start of the chapter.

but it's very minimal (half page for each upgrade)

paper page, has more text than screen ;-) My recollection is that there were fewer issues; ie, no more than those in the chapter. Quality was real good.

we all grow older :-))

Ah, yes. :-} -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)